What Matters And What Doesn’t

Be forewarned, all you “wait for the facts!”-ers, I’m going to talk about this investigation without new information. I know, sickening right? We’ll get through it together, I promise. But some of the stuff I’ve seen over the past few days have left me…

So we had more drivel from The Buffalo News yesterday, or at least mostly drivel. We found out that Kane has a Buffalo cop-as-roadie, which considering his activities isn’t a bad idea in and of itself. Lots of cops moonlight as security in their off hours in whatever fashion. No big deal there. And we certainly don’t want Kane driving around himself, which to his credit I’ve never heard of him doing in Buffalo or here when he’s been out on the town.

However, there are a couple problems with the Buffalo News then running his quotes, because his quotes don’t fucking matter to the case and speak to poisoning any potential jury pool as well as showing us how this investigation might be tainted to begin with, but more on that later.

Sure, this guy should talk to the detectives and police that are investigating this case. But what he’s not, and what I’ve seen him called, is a material witness. Because HE WASN’T IN THE ROOM!

The accuser’s or Kane’s behavior at the bar or in the car matter little to not at all to what actually happened in the bedroom where this allegedly took place. It doesn’t matter whether she was “hanging all over him” or whether she was spitting at him for hours on end. You want to know why we get angry about this kind of shit? THIS.

It feels like most people are under the impression that a majority of sexual assaults happen in a dark alley at knife-point or something, They do not. Most are just like this one, or Julie DiCaro’s, or likely someone you know. A woman meets man, have fun, they leave together, woman goes to his house or dorm or whatever, and either decides she doesn’t want to have sex or gets attacked before she even makes that decision. What went on at the bar and in the car basically has no bearing on what went on after. Sure, this is what the defense would use in court if the defense is consensual, and it will probably work because most people think this way. But it is not how this goes. A woman has the right to say no at any moment before, even during. It’s quite legal and fine to change one’s mind, frat boy.

Let me be clear to the Tylers and Chads of the world, a girl heavily flirting with you or being forward is not a green light, no matter how much you think it is. But here was have this police stooge running to the press, or the press running to him, to run these quotes to basically make the accuser look like a liar or a slut or both. The only thing that matters is what went on in that bedroom, and neither Kane’s police cabana boy nor his sycophant bar owning buddy and what they have to say matters in the goddamn least. It’s shitty reporting, really.

On the flip side, the report that came out last week that the accuser was merely accompanying a friend to Kane’s house, that doesn’t really matter either, beyond refuting any consensual defense that might come up, and even then it basically misses the point. It doesn’t really matter in the press. But it’s telling that this cop had to come out to the press and directly refute that.

Secondly, isn’t it interesting that Kane would have a cop as a minder. Because who better to “fix” things if Kane should go off the rails like he did in that cab in 2010. Now, he’s probably around in case Kane gets into a bar fight or the like and can be right there to talk to the other cops and not something like this, as well as play driver. Still, it doesn’t smell right in this instance.

-Here’s another thing I’m tired of hearing. “Oh well this will ruin his reputation.” Patrick Kane, to date, has made just north of $40 million playing hockey. He’s scheduled to make $84 million more. That doesn’t include what he’s gotten from endorsements. He’s got three rings, and a silver medal. Somehow, even if his reputation is sullied, I think he’ll make it.

So why am I supposed to somehow preserve his “reputation” over the accuser’s dignity, self-worth, and basically whole life? Which is worse? Have you seen what rape victims go through just outside of  the legal process? The damage done and the massive healing that has to take place? I have. It rocks you to your core. This girl could possibly have everything, and I mean everything, taken from her whether Kane is arrested, goes to trial, or no on both. So you’ll have to pardon me if I’m unconcerned with a millionaire’s reputation at the moment.

I know what the counter is to that, if we took rape accusations at full value every time. You would say that every man would have to fear an accusation every night. Yeah, I wonder how we’d ever get through life knowing that an encounter with a stranger of the opposite sex, any single encoutner, could result in a life-altering/shattering experience. How does anyone get through that (except for half the population)?

-But you know what I keep coming back to?

“Patrick Kane draws a lot of water in this town. You don’t draw shit, lady.”

That’s what this is going to boil down to, I fear. All of you so angry at us, and that cancer Scum Mockery and BarShit Sports, you’re almost certainly going to get your wish. He’s probably going to walk. I’d almost be shocked if he’s charged, just given how hard this would be to convict in a vaccum, much less with the city of Buffalo’s fascination with him. And I’m sure they’ll all gloat when he does. That’ll be a truly heartening experience, filling us with faith in society.



  • KOfan

    Sam, I don’t disagree with anything you say here. I do think you have higher expectations of society than I do. The minute both of them got high profile lawyers, this PR “war” was inevitable. Her friends coming out to give equally worthless character affirmations was no accident and neither is this slow leak of his immaculate gentlemanliness. Expect more. I get your outrage, but I don’t share it. Unfortunately, this is super likely to go how you think it will. In fact, can you remember a high profile “date rape” case involving a celebrity going to a guilty verdict? I only remember Tyson and he’s pretty low hanging fruit. Maybe there are others, but they would just prove the exception to the rule.

  • mazer_rackham

    I don’t think people are quoting English because they think he’s a material witness, they’re quoting him because his presentation of the events is contrary to what “friends of the victim” reported previously.

    Really, you can’t complain about them reporting his story and not complain about them also reporting the victim’s friends’ stories. They are both equally immaterial.

    • SamFels

      I had forgotten that part, added it back in.

    • brettraz

      I kind of see it that way. You can’t see it one way and not the other. I think more than if this information is material or not, as Sam clearly thinks it isn’t, is that it would lead more toward the reliability of the victim. Facts are cloudy now, but if she in fact is telling many people that she didn’t want to go to his house, and the officer is saying the exact opposite, that it was her idea and she convinced her friend; then you have a question of which person do you find more credible? And even if whether she wanted to go or not is immaterial to what may have happened in the bedroom, it might lead you to question what else she alleges happened.

      • SamFels

        The problem with that is the only one refuting that is someone on Kane’s payroll.

        • brettraz

          I agree. That is reason to question the officer’s credibility. Playing devil’s advocate though, it was offered as a refute from possibly biased sources on the victim’s side (friends), who weren’t even there.

          • Jim


          • SamFels

            I believe the report that she went there only to accompany a friend came from an unnamed law enforcement source.

          • CammyCam

            Per Deadspin, there were three sources in that report – a friend of the victim as well as an unnamed law enforcement source and a member of the Buffalo legal community.

  • AirTrafficAJ

    I’m no lawyer, but I would assume arguing with people about your client’s case on Facebook is probably a BAD idea:


    • Bob in EP

      Yeah, I also get the sense that he does not write his own briefs.

      • Or at least he isn’t waisted when he does write them

    • Jim

      I read a few articles about this matter, and it seems to involve a lot of the Buffalo local gentry, Kane’s lawyer, SkyBar, District Attorney, some cops, the victim’s father (who hired a big time local lawyer, who represented him in some other case a few years ago), etc. Like kicking over a log….also some repeat characters from the .20 cent cab incident a few years ago.

      • AirTrafficAJ

        I don’t know anything about the guy, other than the fact I’m pretty sure his picture would come up if I ever Googled “Mafia Lawyer”

        • Jim

          I read he was Larry Flynt’s lawyer in the People vs. Larry Flynt.

    • Hockey Newbie

      Wow, that is definitely a bad idea. Not sure how Cambria could have thought anything positive would have come from that.

  • fromheretoinfirmary

    This whole thing, frankly, is turning into a bit of a circus. And that’s not to make light of the accusations. The Buffalo New’s reporting is turning tabloidic (that should be a word); the masses on the internet do not understand the seriousness of these charges and the courage it takes a woman to come forward; now Kane’s lawyer is arguing with people on Facebook?? This whole situation just gets more and more bizarre.

    Sam, in a societal sense, I completely understand your frustration over the way that everyone – including supposedly “respected” media outlets like the BN – are tripping over themselves to take as gospel every word uttered by someone who rubbed shoulders with either kane or the alleged victim that night. Because you are absolutely right that it doesn’t matter. However (and I’m sure you know this, since you are making a completely separate point about society’s reaction to these sorts of things), in court these people could prove extremely important. I know certain jurisdictions have limits on the types of negative “character evidence” you can introduce about a sexual assault victim, but barring that, the driver and the bar owner and the friends – none of whom were in the room – will all be up there telling what they saw, so a jury can decide what will amount to a he-said, she-said case (depending on what happens with the forensic evidence). Sad but true. It’s the balance we’ve all decided to strike for our justice system, and its pitfalls are emphasized most in these types of cases.

  • Matt

    Couple things — going to at least try and tread lightly…

    – Sam, you express anger at the quotes speaking about the accuser’s actions, essentially trying to victim-shame her. I understand that and agree with that frustration. Do you feel the same leeway/minimization of past behavior, etc. should be applied to Kane? You mentioned that “isn’t it interesting that Kane would have a cop as a minder”. Isn’t this sort of doing the same thing as the victim-shamers are doing to the accuser? I feel like while there are way more people being unfair to the victim and making faulty assumptions about her, nevertheless there are people on the flip side using Kane’s past aggressions as indicators of his potential actions here. I’m not saying that people therefore should have a right to probe into the accuser’s motives outside of court, and I’m certainly not saying that Kane’s past is anything near squeaky clean. But the dialogue this way feels a bit uneven to me in that sense.

    – I agree that this probably won’t go to court, and at that point as a fan I really don’t know how to feel. It feels like there will be lots of folks being like “SEE? HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING!” and lots of other folks being like “DOESN’T MATTER, HE DID IT ANYWAY AND THE COURT SYSTEM JUST SUCKS FOR CASES LIKE THESE” and both of those thoughts just don’t sit well with me. As someone who wants to be an advocate for justice and women’s rights as well as a big Blackhawks and (potentially former) Patrick Kane fan, I just want the truth to come out. Either he did it, and I can emotionally move on, or he didn’t do it, and I can continue to root for him and his success. I don’t think we’re getting that though, unfortunately.

    – So what makes Sports Mockery and Barstool Sports (I’m assuming that was the second one) so bad? Do they provide faulty info or are they just taking unsavory angles? Honest question — I don’t know a lot about either site but I’ve seen a lot of anger directed their way on Twitter.

    • SamFels

      I think Kane’s past is relevant, though maybe not as much as I’ve perhaps said. There is a track record of poor treatment of women.

      • Matt

        I guess I don’t disagree — I just think that can lead to a slippery slope with the character games being played with the accuser. If the accuser was, say, an unemployed drug abuser vs. a summa cum laude graduate working at Teach For America, and we knew that background, would the public outcry be any more or less justifiable?

        I suppose you could argue that if the woman instead showed a history of lying for personal gain (which in some senses would balance out Kane’s history with women) then you’re talking more specific motives and something that could at least relate to this case… but that still doesn’t feel wholly kosher to me. I just think everyone is looking into Kane’s past without problem (and his celebrity status and legal run-ins easily lend themselves to that) but I would hate to see people justify making character claims on the accuser simply because Kane comes pre-packaged with character claims. This doesn’t seem to have been said, but I wonder if an instinct to react this way is there for some folks.

        • SamFels

          While I won’t speak for all the writers on this blog, most of my feelings stem from how I feel about how sexual assault is handled and not really Kane’s past, though it does him no favors.

  • Comments are now locked. Clearly none of you get it.

  • april o’neil

    There’s just no positive way for this to go. No matter what, Patrick Kane is either a rapist or his accuser is a liar, and there’s so many negative repercussions for both of those scenarios.

    The one thing I do wish people would take away from this is that it’s just not as easy breezy as people apparently think to accuse a high profile person of a crime, particularly rape.

  • Comments aren’t locked. Continue.

  • If Sam is re-opening the comment after I closed them, I want it on record that the vast majority of you make me fucking sick and would just as soon keep them closed.

  • Jamas

    On opening night, the banner will rise and young people wearing 88 will dance and cheer. I don’t think most people will ‘get it’ or care.

    I’ll have a hard time getting excited about this team regardless of the outcome. Is being a decent guy too much to ask of our heroes?

    • “I’ll have a hard time getting excited about this team, regardless of the outcome.”

      This is where I’m currently finding myself, as well. Regardless of where this whole sordid mess ends, I just know I’m going to continue feeling wholly conflicted when it does…the outcome will likely not serve to clear up my myriad feelings about all of this.

      • Matt

        I try not to allow myself to be selfish about this, because a woman’s (or person’s) right to her body and situations where that right is violated is far more important than any sports game.

        But when that does slip and I do think selfishly as a fan, this part really bums me out. The Hawks have been SO great and SO fun to watch, Kane included, these past few years. I’m 29 and I don’t think up to this date that I’ve felt more strongly about a specific team during a specific age (probably a tad too young to really appreciate the Bulls in their heyday).

        And with this going on, I really don’t know what to think of the team now. Either a good chunk of their talent or a good chunk of their charm (or maybe both) could very well be gone. But I do my best to force that out as that’s not the most important thing right now.

  • CammyCam

    Yea, I’m just going to go ahead and wait until we have some actual evidence to go off of before I decide myself worthy in the least to cast doubt on either side’s version of events.

  • Sopel the catfish

    Morning Links thread still locked, so I’ll drop this here

    Adidas to get NHL jerseys starting in 2017


    • Jeff Rancor

      Good. I hate those Reebok sweaters.

  • Jim

    This is cheap tawdry stuff, and I really don’t want to think about it. Bunch of small town gentry orbiting a drunken Kane at Skybar. Don’t know what happened, but I wish all that talent, and 10.5M in cap space was attached to a different guy….

  • Preacher

    The truth may not be out there.
    “Have you seen what rape victims go through just outside of the legal process?”

    Yes, I have. It’s awful. But it’s also not so easy to determine what the truth is. Because I’ve also seen firsthand what it’s like to be on the other side of this–to be the one falsely accused. I have withheld from commenting on this matter simply because of the “commenter shaming” that seems to go on here any time someone dares to suggest the alleged victim may not be a victim after all. (And that’s NOT my position. I’m simply waiting to see what happens.)

    In my occupation I have had opportunity to be involved with several cases of sexual assault. I have witnessed the destruction that occurred when individuals were accused: loss of job, parental visitation rights, reputation, etc. These things occurred before ANY conviction had taken place. In the cases where there was no conviction those losses were incredibly difficult to get back. And there was no conviction because there was no crime. In each case, the accuser admitted to making up the charges. (In only one of those instances did the accuser receive any legal consequences for their false report. Want to talk about a screwed up legal system? It’s messed up on all sides!)
    Now these were not high profile “celebrity” people–and in many cases it was easy to believe the accuser initially because the perpetrators were not model citizens. I’m talking ex-cons, alcoholics, people with sordid pasts. The accusers were “helpless” victims who were trying to protect themselves and their children. Except they weren’t. They were out for blood, or money, and they felt this was the best way to “win.”
    What I learned from these experiences is to make absolutely no assumptions about the truthfulness of any of it. The past doesn’t matter (as Sam said. Although, when did y’all start believing everything on Deadspin? Those Madison stories were dismissed at the time, if I recall, due to them being contradictory and never pursued by the authorities (who were clearly on the scene!) And yet now, they’re all part of the sordid backstory of the horrid Patrick Kane.)
    I also learned not to believe the numbers either. 8% is most certainly a ridiculously underestimate of false reports. The 40% figure has better stats behind it, but it’s probably a bit high. The Abuse and Sexual Assault task force I was involved with last year found over 30% of reports were false. (That report isn’t published yet so, no I can’t direct you to a source.)
    All of this to say, let it play out. Simple fact is, we don’t know what happened. Yes, Kane has a history with a whole lot of other alleged incidents. And yes, the alleged victim has hired a fancy lawyer and could have ulterior motives. And I get that Sam and McClure are going to use this event as a soapbox for their female-empowerment agenda. (After all, what empowers women more than constantly portraying them as victims!) But I would suggest perhaps it would be a better approach not to sound so disappointed over the idea that Kane is innocent. He may be. Or not. But let it play out.

    • SamFels

      I see some of what you’re saying, but the thoughts about his reputation only were mentioned by me because of his status. I wouldn’t say the same about someone who didn’t have this lofty and protected status.

      To suggest we have an “agenda,” though, that’s insulting. All we’ve done is point out how these things tend to go and how unfair this is. I’m not using Kane to pursue some higher cause, mostly because I know that would be useless. And even if your numbers were correct, and lord knows we can argue about that all day, that means a majority of accusations are still true and still don’t earn convictions.

      As far as your “victims” joke, that’s just disgusting and you know better.

      • Preacher

        Sam–and I say this with no sarcasm intended whatsoever–I’m genuinely and sincerely appreciative that you have responded. To address a couple things, you may be insulted by the “agenda” comment, but I meant it in the context of your whole presentation on this site. The campaign to get rid of the “Stripper” at Hawks’ games, the Ice Girls discussions, the reprimands for any micro-aggressions against women in general, even accusing critics of Jen’s work of being sexist based–it’s pretty clear you use this platform to right the wrongs to women on a regular basis. Pushing the “rape culture” meme follows along in the same vein. And I get it, that’s your world view. You may see it as only stating what for you is simple truth and common courtesy, but outside of your bubble is a whole ‘nother world of folk who don’t agree with all the PCness and feminist themes you regularly espouse here. I’m sure you don’t see it as an “agenda,” but to others who are outside of your particular world view, it comes across as, well, preaching. (And I know you’re trying to use those events, and this one, as a teachable moment. That’s quite noble of you and a good use of your public forum as a much-read scribe on the Internet. But not everyone always agrees with what you’re trying to teach.)
        As for the stats, I simply mention those to point out that not everything is as cut-and-dried at you seem to think (or want it to be). (Our group had a very difficult time trying to determine what even constituted “assault” or when assault had occurred–alcohol and regrets make things messy. And we were on the side of the victim!)
        I guess my ultimate point was that you guys seem to have pretty much convicted Kane already, and it’s just not that easy in real life. As someone who has worked in this area, I can tell you that the truth will probably never be fully known, as frustrating as that is.
        As for the “victims” comment, it actually came from a woman acquaintance who has dealt with this issue in a much more intimate way than you or I have. And I’ll address it with you more in an email. This is not the forum for that discussion.
        As I said, I appreciate that you even responded to me at all.

        • SamFels

          I haven’t convicted him, though I know that’s how it looks. It’s just, with these cases, if I say that I lean toward the accuser because of what they have to go through and the evidence we have, there isn’t a lot of wiggle room.

          • Preacher

            Sam, I said I’d email you and I want to. But what’s the best email address to use?

          • SamFels

            Hey sorry it took so long. Committedindian@gmail.com

    • KEK

      What type of occupation do you work that has you regularly getting accused of Sexual Assault?

    • HostileHawk

      An FBI Crime Report and Department of Justice Report found that 8% of accusations were found to be false or unfounded. Yes, this is a tough and possibly misleading statistic, because of how many cases do not go to court. However, of all accusations in the United States, 8% are proven to be false. Compare that to the 35% in which the accused is formally charged and faced punishment from the criminal justice system. So, 8% are proven false, and 35% are proven to be rape.

      The cultural aspects, or the feminist themes you speak to as being just one person’s perspective is quite narrow-minded. This is not one person’s world view, this is not an opinion. I’m sure you are aware that a feminist is someone who believes men and women should be treated equally. Misandry is when someone treats men with hatred. To refer to Sam’s world view of rape culture as just an opinion, is similar to saying his world view of a round Earth is just opinion. I can stand outside of my own bias, observe the world through research, and any objective conclusion would support Sam’s statements. Maybe he has come down hard on Kane, but Kane absolutely deserves most of that criticism. Kane is not your friend, and he is in a much better place to deal with the conclusions of this case regardless of how it ends. He has done nothing to earn your perspective, in fact he has done everything to not allow us to presume his innocence.

      If in fact, this woman is lying, she is making it difficult for everyone. Yes, absolutely. It’s a slam in the face of women and men, who are raped, and further exacerbates the system. But when we look at the records and stats of sexual abuse, spousal abuse, women as objectified sexual objects, not given equal status in the work place, media portrayals, etc…..Reality suggests that you have to check the male privilege in this world and ethically support those who have been historically oppressed, rather than jump to the support of those who have been the historical oppressors. This is simple logic and ethics. If you don’t see it that way, it might be your opinion, but your opinion is incorrect. This is how facts work.

      You might have personal experiences that contradict these realities, but the exceptions do not define the rule. That is not to say that this is a case of false accusation. But in your heart or hearts and mind, do your really want to support Kane given his track record that we know of? If Toews was accused, it might be a different story. Why, because he hasn’t given us reason to presume his guilt. These are the facts.

      • Preacher

        You can use the word “facts” for your view and “opinion” for someone else’s and that makes you right then, huh? How convenient for you. If you’d like to carry on the discussion about facts vs. opinion with me through email, I will do that. I’m not going to do it here anymore, as it’s much too long and involved to be of any use on this forum. But I will say again that my point was with Sam and McClure’s automatic finding of guilt in this case (though Sam has stated he has NOT found Kane guilty already but realizes it may be perceived that way, and I will take him at his word on this.). I felt their justification was flawed, and since they were using stats and anecdotal evidence to justify their position, I simply responded in kind. I also felt this particular issue was one that they were using as an opportunity to push a particular agenda, one which they have pushed on several occasions before. The problem I had with it was that many of the memes and themes around issues such as feminism and rape culture are being found statistically (that would be FACTUALLY) untrue. And to use those faulty arguments to support a certain viewpoint does women no help. I say this as a father of 4 daughters and a man who works with rape and sexual abuse victims. Actually, I don’t say it, they do.

  • jordyhawk

    I’m wondering if the decision to lay charges comes down to whether the district attorney thinks he can make the case on the basis of the forensic evidence alone. Just a thought.

    • SamFels

      I would imagine that’s most of these cases, and even that is probably tricky. “Rough sex” could be used as a defense?

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      He will certainly have a hard time making a case without it.

  • Bob Lanz

    I am so thankful we have gotten to a place in our society where we prejudge everything. After all waiting for any sort of facts is such an enormous waste of time in our instant gratification Twitter feed society. The press doesn’t wait to get the story right just get it out first and reserve the right to amend it later. We’re so politically correct that we apologize in advance just on the chance we may offend …well anyone. And 49% of us have found Patrick guilty. 49% more have decided the accuser is of course lying or trying to make a quick buck. Then there has got to be 1% who is just so sick of both sides of this coin and yes the ToS too. Fuck it guilty or not it’s fucked everything is fucked. So enjoy your righteous indignation. It must be great to always know you are right. This maybe my last post and read here. I hope not but why should I continue to go where I’m clearly not wanted and at this point just tired of your bullshit.

  • Pilotefan

    This may be beside the point, but Kane is a low IQ moron. Who makes that much money, is single and hangs out in public places pissed ?
    In our modern world Kane is a target begging to have shit flung at him. Surprise, some of it will stick. As a superstar you do not get down with the common man.
    He put himself in this situation. I have zero sympathy for him if he is as innocent as a lamb. I’ve got my doubts that is the case as he radiates entitlement.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      You’re right. It’s beside the point.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    I am patiently waiting for the forensics, and dearly hope that they offer something concrete one way or the other. The last thing I want is a ‘he said / she said,’ but without good physical evidence, that’s what we’re going to wind up with: No criminal charges followed by a civil suit and a settlement. Not saying it’s right, not saying it’s what I want, but it is what I am coming to expect. There will be no winners here.

  • JoeGrant

    Any thoughts on how best to spend Kane’s salary should the Blackhawks be relieved of his contract? Any thoughts on Panarin and how or when he might fit in the line up?

    • Statman

      I too am curious as to how the salary cap is impacted by a player who is unable to participate due to a team or league suspension, due to being on trial, due to serving a sentence, etc. I haven’t seen any reporting anywhere that would provide guidance. With each passing day, it seems more and more likely that Kane might not be available for camp. The fact that the Hawks haven’t signed Kruger and thereby taken advantage of the 10% allowed “summer” overage in the salary cap rules makes me wonder that either the Hawks are confident that Kane will be available or that his cap hit sticks whether or not he can play. It’s obvious that no reporter, blogger or fan has a sufficient body of facts to know what’s going to happen on the criminal justice front, if anything, so it would be interesting to learn what the scenarios could be if a player is unavailable. I fear that we’re in uncharted waters here and that there isn’t a clear answer.

  • bmarlowe

    SAM: “However, there are a couple problems with the Buffalo News then running
    his quotes, because his quotes don’t fucking matter to the case and
    speak to poisoning any potential jury pool as well as showing us how
    this investigation might be tainted to begin with, but more on that

    No, the Buffalo News clearly an obligation to quote this person. Fortunately the other major news organizations (even 670) appear to agree. That you don’t understand this is mind-boggling. Are you serious? The only drivel I see is your commentary about poisoning the jury pool and what constitutes a material witness. Really – you need to stick to hockey..

    • HossasPierogi

      Per our discussion the other day, I agree with you on this one.

      • bmarlowe

        This piece is so unprofessional and irrational it makes one wonder about the credibility of other things that Fels has written. Really, should we believe anything he has implied about Sharp etc?

  • Chad Spradlin

    Whoa with the name calling… if I remember right you should have stated “Tyler and Patricks” being that both Patrick’s are frat boys on/was on the same team. Chads are not as douchey. It mean Warrior in Norse. Get It straight!

  • Chad Spradlin

    Also… if you want to stay out of trouble then don’t get into trouble. How many marian hossa stories are there? Play with matches you get burned.

    • oldman

      Are you directing this at the accuser or the accused?

  • Sopel the catfish

    Bad news is he’s out three months, good news is his quote
    “They told me they want me to be a Kruger,” Danault said. “So I’ll try to mold myself after Marcus Kruger.”

  • wreckinball

    The drivers story is a little relevant since it precedes the alleged crime
    Seems like this is almost personal for Sam

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      1. Police officer, so credibility.
      2. On Kane’s payroll, so no credibility.

      • wreckinball

        Disagree It would have to be disclosed as potentially biased just like the friend of the alleged victim

  • JayGee

    Very personal. Let’s just hang Kane now.

  • wreckinball

    I’m not sure the forensic evidence is all that relevant
    It usually just proves they had sex. Is that being contested?

    • seabsrat

      I’m not entirely sure what all is included in a rape kit, but I believe they’d be able to determine not only the presence of bodily fluids, but also whether or not there was any kind of tearing, or signs of struggle (i.e. looking under the victim’s fingernails).

      Of course even if the kit does come back “positive”, I’m sure that Kane would just say that it was rough sex, which is a possibility.

      Then you’re back to all the he said, she said stuff. But that kit is likely going to be the most objective evidence we get in this case… that is, if the evidence from the kit ever reaches the light of day.

      • jordyhawk

        An accused might say rough sex, but if rough sex is entirely inconsistent with the demeanor/sexual history of the accuser then it might actually backfire and cast doubt on the accuser.

        As well, it also depends on the nature of the injuries (a black eye is not really consistent with rough sex). While there is no black eye in this case there are other injuries which may or may not be easily explained.

        The forensic evidence has the potential to be very revealing although that’s not always the case. We’ll see.

        Gotta cut out here. CSI Buffalo is on in a couple of minutes.

        • seabsrat

          That is totally true. I guess I was just assuming that there weren’t any obvious external signs (like a black eye), but there very well could be and we just haven’t heard about it yet. I’m just wondering in the absence of any obvious external trauma, how much light the kit will shed on the case. Only time will tell.

        • ChiCityKyle

          The only thing im confused with is when you say demeanor and sexual history of the accuser.

          I dont see how that matters only because what do you just say you never had rough sex before or dont like rough sex in the past? And as for demeanor, that cant be used as there are so many “angels” who are “freaks between the sheets”.

      • ChiCityKyle

        Yes, because im just going out on a whim here but rough sex makes sense. Im sure most people arent “making love” at 3am after meeting for the first time. Sorry if its TMI but occasionally the whole tearing thing happens quite easily depending on angle and a few other things as im sure everyone who is sexually active knows.

        • seabsrat

          I agree situationally, that rough sex “makes sense”, but given Kane’s celebrity status, it’s hard to tell. Again, I don’t really know too much about rape kits or how great they are at discerning rough sex from incidents of rape.

          Until our society’s justice system evolves to that of one like from the movie Minority Report, there will always be some doubt in cases like this without direct evidence (a video or audio recording).

          This all just continues to bum me out.

        • ChiCityKyle

          The other thing Ive been thinking about in this whole ordeal is if Kane did have a few too many and couldnt “get it up”. Can it still be considered rape without sexual intercourse if other things happened that were unwanted, even things like kissing?

  • ChicagoDog

    I’ll be honest, I don’t care. I don’t care about Kane and I don’t care about the accuser. It’s not that I’m callous and cold hearted, it’s just that neither of them mean anything to me, I don’t know them. There are thousands of women sexually assaulted every day in this world, it’s terrible and horrific and not a single one deserves it, but I don’t have the mental energy to be broken up and upset about every case, and this one to me is no different. The world is a terrible place, and terrible stuff happens every day, if i cried a single tear for each atrocity committed around the world i’d be crying all day. I’m not justifying what Kane may or may not have done, I’m just saying I find it hypocritical to get real bent out of shape about this particular instance when there are so many more that occurred the same night and keep occurring. Kane, to me, is a service provider. No different (besides paycheck) than a cable guy or pizza delivery man. I don’t know these men personally, but I pay them to do things for me that make me happy. I don’t know or care to know about the secret life of my pizza delivery man. The only thing I ask of him is to bring me pizzas and to be a law abiding citizen. The only thing I ask of Kane is to bring me entertainment and be a law abiding citizen. If he is not, then he should be punished for his crimes. That’s not for any of us to decide, we have nothing you would consider to be a fact yet. We know nothing. I have read this blog for many many years now, I appreciate the insight. I do not appreciate the recent “teachable moment” and sunday school lectures about rape culture. I don’t come here for that. I come here for hockey talk, and I like hockey because life is hard and difficult and complicated and hockey is a great temporary distraction. I don’t need lessons in the ethics of being a fan, because I don’t care, that’s not why I’m here. I’m not interested in learning to be a better person or whatever or participating in an important discussion about the impact of rape culture on pro athletes.
    I really don’t understand the people that are like “how can I ever watch another game” “It’s all tainted for me now” and similar laments. How selfish is that? It’s not about you. This situation is about the accuser and Kane, the accuser’s life is already ruined whether she is being truthful or not or gets a conviction in her favor or not, and Kane’s life is pretty well ruined too, guilty or not he has a lot deal with and get straight in his life plus the possibility of serving jail time whether he deserves it or not, your emotions don’t matter, and your opinion doesn’t matter. The only impact it has on us as fans is whether or not Kane is going to jail or be suspended, then there are roster and cap implications. That’s the only way it impacts me. The accuser doesn’t need us to individually make a stand in this comment section against rape culture, she apparently has some big dollar lawyer fighting for her already, someone who can actually do something for her. I think we all need to take a deep breath, and get back to discussing things we know about…things like hockey.

    • ChicagoDog

      I realize it’s hypocritical of me, but really comment sections and the phrase “everyone is entitled to their opinion” are terrible. Just because you have an opinion on something doesn’t mean it’s valid or that you need to tell everyone about it. While there have been some experts that have chimed in we’re here debating whether the contents of rape kits can indicate rape and whether “rough sex” would be a legitimate legal defense. Come on. Let’s be real. Let’s let the legal process play out and go from there.

      • seabsrat

        I assume that this is aimed at my comments about the rape kit. I didn’t mean to make it sound as if I have any kind of expertise on the subject or that my opinion should be held in any high regard by anyone, but I thought it might spark a reply of someone who did have a little more expertise. I agree that the comments sections of most sites are some of the worst places on the internet, but I guess I typically try to use them to learn a little bit more.

        • ChicagoDog

          Nah Man, its not you, just everything in general. It was more directed at the proprietors of this blog than anything. It’s insulting that comment sections are shut down, that they think so little of their readers that they don’t trust us. In summary, I don’t ask my dentist about my car troubles…I don’t want my hockey blog preaching to me. Everyone else is chiming in with their opinions, this one is mine.

          • ChicagoDog

            I get that the “Triumvirate” can write whatever they want, it’s their blog, they own it, and I am free to not read it, but I really like their hockey analysis and I wish the would “stay in their lane”. The recent change in subject matter and tone is putting off a lot of regular readers. There is a second blog for Cubs writing because it would be inappropriate to write about that here…maybe there should be a third blog so they can keep all this separate from actual hockey news and analysis.

          • ChicagoDog

            and it’s not that the topic of rape culture is one that I deny or it’s too hard hitting for me to discuss or that I don’t care, that’s not it at all, I do care about that, its an important topic, just not here. It’s that I have always come here to relax, to read hockey analysis and get my mind off the rest of my day, I have enough to worry about between my job, maintaining a successful marriage, and raising my son. There is a time and place for the discussion of rape culture etc. This may be the time, but it’s not the place, at least it shouldn’t be. I would like it to not be.

          • SnakePlissken

            Don’t mean to interrupt your conversation with yourself, but I just wanted to say I agree with what you’re saying. I come here to read about hockey, not social commentary. I’m not on Twitter and I don’t bother with gossip/garbage web sites so I don’t share the moral outrage over silly things some people have said on the internet. I get that this site ranges beyond pure hockey analysis, but I’d really like to see it reined in on this subject.

  • Leroy Baxter

    It’s condescending to be educated about privilege and rape culture on a hockey blog. I’ve noticed that this site has been pushing an agenda for the past year (even seriously considered scrapping the name “The Committed Indian” for fear that some people might find it offensive).
    These emotionally charged rants by Fels and McClure, which express the certainty of Kane’s guilt and imply that anybody who doesn’t automatically back the accuser is an amoral rape apologist, are irritating to read, and only serve to alienate anyone who even remotely disagrees with them. If that was the grand design, then consider it a success. I can’t stomach this site’s preaching any longer. Smell ya later, Committed Indian. Smell ya later forever.

  • Craig Chval

    It’s inappropriate for anybody without direct knowledge of the events to be expressing an opinion as to Kane’s innocence or guilt. I deplore the hero-worship of athletes and celebrities in this society, the blind defenses of Kane, and the baseless attacks on the complainant in this case and sexual assault complainants in general.

    But presuming Kane guilty is unethical and irresponsible. Arguing that he is likely guilty of rape because he assaulted a cab driver, has in other instances mistreated women or because he has exhibited a pattern of irresponsible behavior is deplorable. Even arguing that a prior sexual assault (were that to be the case) “proves” that a man accused of sexual assault is generally inadmissible in court because of the possibility that even an admitted serial rapist may not have committed the assault in question.

    I applaud your efforts to call out those who blindly defend Kane and to condemn those who impugn the complainant without basis. But your treatment of Kane here is shameful. Absence of direct knowledge of the events should not be an invitation to engage in character assassination and speculate as to what really happened; it should be an invitation to shut the fuck up as to what we “think” happened. It’s an invitation that you should accept.

  • wreckinball

    The victims friend went with her?
    That’s really odd
    What was her friend doing when she was allegedly being raped?

  • The Nature Boy

    I would not be surprised in the least of Kane is guilty, and if so, should be punished fully. However your bias towards him being a complete piece of shit is obvious and because of that it is hard to take anything you write seriously either.

    • juniorgilb

      Nature Boy: If we accept the premise of your first sentence, based upon the chronic pattern of antisocial behavior, and I do accept it, then Sam’s judgment about Kane’s lack of character seems inarguable.