USATSI_7899037_160885884_lowres

Somebody To Shove: Wild 1 – Hawks 4 (Hawks Lead 2-0)

Box Score

Event Summary

Extra Skater

I doubt you’ll see a more h0-hum game in the second round of the playoffs than this afternoon’s. It’s clear that the Wild haven’t completely caught the attention of the Hawks’ faithful yet, and they haven’t caused the Hawks to think that they have to pull out the full arsenal. At least not yet. And the Hawks still lead this series 2-0 heading back to St. Paul.

The Hawks exerted a lot of control in the 1st period, without using it to strangle the Wild. They held them to two shots while only managed seven themselves, though they the attempts were 12-4. While the 2nd shows the Wild got 13 shots, half of those were piled in during a power play and almost all of them came on one goalmouth scramble. The 2nd wasn’t really any looser than the 1st, and came capped off with a Brandon Saad laster into the top corner right after a power play after the Wild didn’t fully deal with a cross-ice pass from Bickell.

While the Hawks weren’t as aggressive in the 3rd, it didn’t feel like they were completely turtling. The Wild got one goal off a really well-worked rush from Erik Haula and Cody McCormick (what?) but after that the Hawks soaked up whatever pressure there was and waited for a chance to seal it. They got two. Hossa hit the crossbar. Bickell didn’t. After the Wild goal they only managed six more shot attempts and it was pretty easily seen out.

Shall we? We shall.

DarylZero

The Two Obs

-The Hawks first goal was a perfect example of when it is ok to hang out beyond the red line. Bickell had gained possession and had time to look up, which is when Hossa made his break. It’s not when your d-men have barely regained possession–or haven’t at all–and are under pressure. It also sprang from Bicks supporting his d-man in the corner. And at some point, you knew the Hawks would catch Prosser and Stoner napping.

-Oh right, you probably came to see if my brain exploded when finding out Brandon Bollig was scratched for Morin. I’m not going to get too delighted about something that should have happened at least 50 games ago. But notice Morin and Versteeg created a chance on their very first shift. Didn’t prevent Steeger and Handzus from getting clocked in possession, but hey, mighty oaks from little acorns.

-Nick Leddy only got two shifts after the goal against, and while he maybe could have been a little harder in the neutral zone I really don’t see how it’s his fault that Handzus lost his guy in the middle of the ice. But I gave up on using logic long ago.

-When you check out Extra Skater, the real story is in the 5-on-5 close count, where the Hawks had 57% of the shot attempts. They had this game in control for most of it.

-I’m not exactly sure what Joakim Nordstrom has done to earn third line minutes in Shaw’s absence. But he at least knows enough to stay out of Brandon Saad’s way when The Marquis is playing like this. And that’s enough.

-And that line was used as a genuine checking line, taking on Mikael Granlund’s line and getting the better of it. You would have thought being opened up to take on Minny’s third line would have led to a bonanza for Sharp and Kane, but it didn’t. Anomaly?

There really isn’t much more to say. The Hawks will need to step it up on Tuesday in what has become quite the cauldron at The X. They tend to get better as series goes along, but we haven’t seen much of the A-game yet this spring. One good outing in Minny and this series will be over.

  • HossBoss

    What a bunch of slackers…

    http://i.imgur.com/EbXBedC.png

    • Bruno_the_Blackhawk_Cat

      I mean really. Nobody in the top 5 on assists? We might as well just forfeit.

      • HossBoss

        Bickell in his post game said (jokingly) ‘I didn’t want to give Toews an assist, I’d rather give Hossa an assist.’

        • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

          There’s a behind the doors locker room story there, no doubt.

      • guesthouse

        Mr. Parise with 11 points and is -3, if we’re talking stats of the non-fancy variety.

    • HossBoss

      Also…this is fun http://theraceto16.com/

    • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

      Why do Kopitar’s eyes always look like John Scott is his optometrist?

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Well, it’s not like we’ve been playing the top teams. St Louis is good, but they were banged up and on the skids the last two weeks of the season, and Minny is…. Minny.

      • DesertHawk

        Detroit, Dallas, Columbus, San Jose, Flyers, and Lightning… were just AWESOME!!!

  • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

    I HOPE you are right Sam about not yet seeing the Hawks A-Game. If we are seeing it now, well, Fuck!

    • ballyb11

      WITH YA.

  • zacked

    Stretch passes! No one who can’t get 6 minutes of ice time should be playing! Trolling!

    • HossBoss

      Morin had 5:42. Lets just count that as 6 even

  • cliffkoroll

    Six straight.

    • HossBoss

      10 more to go

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Great kid, don’t get cocky. // H. Solo

    • Accipiter

      6 straight when scoring first.

      • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

        All the Hawk SCPO games, first to score has won.

        • Accipiter

          I am aware.

          • Z-man19

            ‘Cip’s aware

          • Accipiter

            I know my stats.

          • Z-man19

            What’s your PDO?

          • Accipiter

            I’m regressing.

  • ballyb11

    “The Hawks will need to step it up on Tuesday ……………..”

  • Bullitt315

    Morin didn’t play for Bollig. Morin played for shaw. Nordstrom played for Bollig. I don’t mind bollig sitting so much as this Morin/bollig thing isn’t a thing. And against the wild, I’m good with Bollig sitting for someone quicker who can play d

    • Z-man19

      I get your point but not really. Shaw was a checking forward, Bollig was a 4th liner getting 5 minutes. Who replaced what?

      • Bullitt315

        Shaw is sheltered, so is morin. They’re not going to give morin 20% offensive zone starts.

        • Z-man19

          Not when he’s on Kruger’s line. Look at the last 3 games for Kruger and tell me he’s getting sheltered. It may not be as Dzone heavy as the regular season but he’s still facing tough competition.

    • Bob Lanz

      I disagree, Nordstrom played for versteeg, versteeg played for shaw, morin played for Bollig. But only Q can really answer this.

  • HossBoss
    • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

      This is the one I ended up using in the Count Down

  • wowwowweewoo

    I think Nordstrom will end up filling Frolik’s role to a T. He has a wicked fast first step and he closes distance in a hurry. He’s also surprisingly strong on the boards and not overly easy to knock off the puck. He’s not going to pour ‘em in, but we’ve got enough of that, so I’m quite happy with his contributions.

    • Why

      He looks ok in the offensive end. He’s not going to try to stick handle through anybody but the shot looks fine and the hands look very, very nice.

      • wowwowweewoo

        I’m really not even concerned about his offensive contributions. My expectations are for him to be smart with the puck and positionally sound in his current checking role. Add his ability to get pucks out and drive a little possession in the o-zone with his board battling, I’m impressed. This team needs guys like him more than anything else, it’s what was so wrong with the 2011 team (pieces that didn’t complement).

    • XMF

      I like how he’s grown even just this season. But he’s actually fairly easy to knock off the puck. He’ll grow and get bigger but right now, he’s fun to watch but not-quite-ready for a regular bottom six role. Next season, after a summer of focusing on getting a bit stronger? I agree with you, he could be very valuable as a future PK stud.

  • HossBoss
  • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

    IMO, Game 3 is the biggest tell game of a series. Both teams have had a chance to adjust and now counter-adjust. One team can walk of with a 3-0 lead and be ready to clinch, come out with a 2-1 lead and take handle of the series or fight back into the series by pulling to 1-2. Game 3 shows how well each side can adjust and overcome.
    .
    It is not by any means a 100% certainty, but I thhink more times than not, it is pretty telling, even if it is a loss, if the play was strong it can be the tone from then on.

    • roadhog

      You mean like game 3 in SJS vs. LA?

      • Z-man19

        Ouch

      • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

        Way to keep it in perspective….

    • ballyb11

      Game 3 is the most important game of the season.

      • roadhog

        Until game 4.

      • Accipiter

        Why did they sit Bollig ?

        • Why

          So he’d be rested for game 3. That’s the most important game.

        • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

          A sudden attack of sanity?

          Nah,……

        • Bob Lanz

          We asked

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      If we’re going to see a Hawks letdown, it will be game three.

    • birdhead

      Didn’t the Hawks lose all their game 3s last year?

      • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

        Yes they did! lol

        • birdhead

          Big tell games right there! ah well, I know what you mean though.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    Captain beat two Wild down the ice to tap in the rebound of Hossa’s breakaway. They started at the Hawks blue line, he started in the left circle. Hustle, and a subtle little hook, and he potted the first goal after a stupid good save by Bryz.

    Saad… Yeah, that was way too cool on his first goal.

    Crow stood on his head when he had to, but I counted at least three times when the puck was within arms length of the crease (if not actually in the blue paint), and he had no idea where it was.

    On the ENG, Hossa was not making a blind clear. He looked right down the middle of the ice, saw Saad turning on the after burners, and made a perfect bank pass, tossing it out in front of everyone as if to say, ‘There it is, kid, go get it.”

    Now, let’s not fuck around. Stay sharp, don’t get cocky, and let’s get game three.

    • roadhog

      And, Sharp almost had his second if not for the tip of Coyle’s stick.

    • Bullitt315

      I actually felt bad for Bryz. Amazing save and he still had a goal against.

      • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

        For the next 2-5 games I will not complain or feel bad once with a puck ending up behind Bryz or any MIN Goalie.

        • Z-man19

          Maybe if one of Hossa’s slappers from 15 feet would go 5 hole and take a teste with it to the back of the net, I might feel for the guy

          • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

            Nope, not even then. Should have been wearing a cup!

          • Z-man19

            I’ve had to explain what a cup is for to my 8 year old, he loves saying nuts, it’s been pretty humorous.

          • Arctic Ice

            Ha! for my kiddo its ‘got to protect his jewels’

      • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

        Bryz played a hell of a game. None of the GA were on him.

        • roadhog

          Saad’s clearly jumped up off Parise’s stick.

      • The Other One

        I think Bryz thought that Hossas shot went in. He had no clue it was there for Toews to put in

  • roadhog

    Come on Rags . . . tie this shit.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      So conflicted…. My loathing of The Kid is almost perfectly balanced by my dislike of all things AV.

      • roadhog

        Lundquist is playing all freaking universe this game. The only goal was tipped in by Girardi . . .

        • Waylon

          yeah, he really is living up to his nickname this series. Just phenomenal, reminds me a bit of Hasek at times back there.

      • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

        Don’t root for AV, just root against anything Brooks Orpik

  • Accipiter

    Bickell hit 2 crossbars.

  • Z-man19

    Kunitz with a flop

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    Rangers would have an easier time mounting a comeback if they could stay out of the fucking box.

  • Arctic Ice

    Fucking flightless, featherless fowls

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      practically chickens.

  • roadhog

    The entire Rags bench failed to hand their dman a stick . . .

  • Accipiter

    Leddy had a few turnovers in his own zone early on, IIRC. After the Wild goal, I expected him to see fewer minutes.

    • Z-man19

      Rozs didn’t play a lot in the 2nd, seemed kinda odd

    • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

      Bad penalty, too.

  • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

    MAF for Conn Smythe!!!
    Why? Because Fuck PD, thats why!

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      I support half of that post.

  • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

    Does anybody know of a place with Goalie Shootout stats?

    • neo1978

      Main NHL site for goalies has them. What specifically are you looking for?

      • Accipiter

        Their usefulness in the playoffs.

        • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

          Correlation–I hesitate to say causation–between a shutout and win.

      • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

        Just in case the Hawks get to the SO, curious if we should have traded Kane for Oshie after they got Miller

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          It’s not as good if you have to explain it. I might have to take my boat back.

        • neo1978

          Sorry, there were too many simultaneous posts going on to see the snark.

  • Bob Lanz

    Q needs to lighten up on Leddy, for crissakes he’s saddled with the 6 man who ever that is all year rotating thru 3-4 partners. Then come playoff time he expects… I don’t know perfection. The guys got speed on the rush like no one on the team and has a good a shot from the point as we have. Next year I expect him to move up a pairing. Unless Q decides to stunt another talented young player

    • bizarrohairhelmet

      999,999,997 bottles of beer on the wall, 999,999,997 bottles of beer…

      • Bob Lanz

        Q eventually comes around to my way of thinking. :)

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          after 1,000,000,000 consecutive bottles of beer, your thinking makes sense.

    • Accipiter

      Q is the worst.

      • Why

        Trade q for giradi

        • Accipiter

          Seabrook was traded for Girardi.

          • Why

            Well then make the trade again. We need to give Giradi away so we have someone to trade Q for.

      • Bob Lanz

        Never said that and you know it. You also know how I feel about his use and or treatment of our prospects

    • neo1978

      Sorry, the guy in the lower right hand corner isn’t in line to move up a d-pair next season…

      http://www.extraskater.com/players/dashboard?team=chi&pos=D&sort=qoc_toi#player-usage-chart

      • Bob Lanz

        Wow these stats prove Leddy sucks. What was I thinking. Holy shit he us the worst defenseman we have ever had… Or is it indicative of how Q has used him? Hmmmmm

        • CozBullsFan

          Yup. By Neo’s thinking, we might as well trade him! We’re bound to get some takers! Right?

          • Bob Lanz

            No chance look at how bad he is at hockey. To think we got hosed by Minnesota we traded number a one draft pick for him

          • CozBullsFan

            Damn it! I was Barker back!

          • Bob Lanz

            Mostly cause his first name is Cam

          • CozBullsFan

            Can’t go wrong there!

          • Joe Banks

            Cam is better than “Piston”

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Or “Crank” or “Shaft”…unless you’re getting into the pr0n industry.

          • neo1978

            Strawman. But yes, Leddy has a better chance of being traded than move up a d-pair next season.

          • CozBullsFan

            I was half joking really. You honestly think Stan would trade Leddy? That’s hilarious.

          • CozBullsFan

            Edit: I know you didn’t think that. That was worded badly.

          • neo1978

            Not really but I think there is even less chance that Leddy moves into the top 4.

          • Bob Lanz

            I believe I can fly and Leddy is ready to move up with Hammer

          • Why

            Let’s see what happens with Oduya in the offseason first.

          • Bob Lanz

            I hope Johnny stays but if he’s delt it’s a given Leddy moves up. Even if Odie stays Ledds should move up with hammer and 27 should skate with the new guy whether it’s clendening, johns or a dman to be named later

          • Why

            I remember this being a rallying cry during the last offseason.

          • Bob Lanz

            I seem to recall that too. To me it’s not a rallying cry but in order to preserve the youth movement you have to. See what you have at some point, this includes guys we have drafted and guys on the team. I’m fine with keeping odie he’s been great. I just think we have potential in other guys that may be greater and there is always that pesky salary cap to consider

          • Why

            There is no youth movement. This is a Stanley Cup Contender. The goal is to win the Stanley Cup. If young guys earn a spot or you need them for cap purposes, you play them. If Oduya is a better option than Leddy for the next shift, Oduya takes the next shift.

            It is nice when young guys earn spots. Shaw and Saad were crucial to last year’s success. But young guys don’t get those spots handed to them. You’ve got Chicago confused with Edmonton and Florida.

          • Bob Lanz

            You are amazing. This is nothing to do with my comments. You are so arrogant. I want the best players playing clearly my previous comments point this out. But the salary cap is real. We have to resign toaster and kaner. You think that isn’t going to be at the expense of some of outrage talented seasoned players. Youth preservation and contending are not mutually exclusive.

          • Why

            Thank you for calling me amazing. I also think I’m amazing. That also likely makes me arrogant. I acknowledge that I can’t have everything.

            I’m well aware that the Blackhawks will lose some players. It is nice to give younger players a chance to develop. My position is that a 2-1 Stanley Cup playoff game is not the time for that development if better options are available.

          • Bob Lanz

            Just when and how did I say any differently ? This is a case of us agreeing but somehow you’re assuming my intent differs from yours. The fact remains I want to win more than seeing if our younger guys have more to contribute but there is salary cap restrictions and it’s going to be played out no matter how you feel it about it

          • Why

            To answer your question, please read your first post in the thread.

          • Bob Lanz

            Ya your right clearly English is not your first language. You win I’m done it doesn’t matter. You have completely interpreted all comments like I’m did interested in winning and only want to address developing young talent.

            The reality is there will be turnover, but hey I’m sure there are more Handzues out there and Kostkas etc. Bollig will be here for three more years too! Ya

          • Why

            You’re. Like I’m did. Handzues. I make grammatical mistakes too but I’m not sure it’s my grasp on the English language that should be called into question here.

            You think Q needs to lighten up on Leddy. That’s a thing you typed. That I read.

          • Bob Lanz

            Well very good. That is exactly what I was saying. But how that got morphed I have no idea

          • Why

            What do you mean by “lighten up?” What other possible explanation is there for those words other than “play Leddy more”?

          • Bob Lanz

            Yes play Leddy more with a consistent partner. I mean the short leash, last year now this year this early. IF he sucks then replace him… Like Bollig

          • Why

            Which defencemen should get demoted so that Leddy gets an unearned opportunity?

          • birdhead

            an unearned opportunity to play with one partner all year?

          • Why

            We had 8 defencemen on the roster to begin the year. Someone was going to sit while we figured out who #6 was. Leddy was the clear #5/#6 guy (Rozy was awesome during the playoffs last year). He’s the guy that gets the rotating cast of characters

          • birdhead

            and he’s played with a rotating cast of characters and been awesome with them; Rozsival and Leddy have the best CF%s of any of the defensive pairs. What does he have to do to earn tougher minutes, from your perspective? What would you take as evidence he’s ready to move up?

          • Why

            Tape passes inside his own zone and be quicker with the puck. Be “harder” on guys in the corner.

            But most of all, be better than Oduya or Hjammer. That’s tough to do.

          • Z-man19

            did you just go Pierre on us?

          • Why

            I don’t hate Pierre because of the double entendres. I just hate Pierre.

            But yes. In retrospect, yes.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            You’re amaizing

          • VerStig

            That’s a corny statement

          • DesertHawk

            Toaster?

          • VerStig

            Maybe he thinks Toews is a Cylon

          • DesertHawk

            I figured out what he meant (auto correct I assume) but it took me a minute, I was like…. “Is this a nickname I don’t know?!”

        • neo1978

          Those stats show a guy NOT in line for a move to a higher d-pair. Unless you are expecting a different coach next season. Pretty easy call too.

          • Bob Lanz

            Would like to place a small wager on this. Those stats know nothing john snow

          • birdhead

            What did Bollig’s stats in 12-13 show about his usage in 13-14?

          • Why

            That he was close to next in line to get more minutes. He was the first guy off the bench when Stalberg sat.

          • Bob Lanz

            That was ridiculous too

          • neo1978

            At the end of last season and in the playoffs? By that time there was statistical evidence to show how Q was using him this season.

          • birdhead

            Hm, okay.

          • birdhead

            Do you think that players develop? That if a player is being used in a bottom-right role he won’t ever play differently than that?

          • VerStig

            Honest question — when was Hjammer moved to the 2nd pairing?

          • neo1978

            Hammer only played 21 games in the 2008/09 regular season. But by the playoffs was already firmly in the top 4.

          • Why

            I thought it was Walker and Hjammer playing together in the 09 playoffs.

          • neo1978

            Let me say that differently. By the time of the 2008/09 playoffs, Hammer was firmly in the top 4 on who he was playing against, QoC. The argument here is about being able to predict a “jump” in a players role. So the jump to the 2nd pair in the 2009/10 season was easy to see.

          • Why

            It’s just tough for me to call that top 4. Q has used offensive defencemen against “weaker” competition in order to score goals. If you’re going to call Hjammer top 4 in 2009, that means that either Campbell or Keith wasn’t.

            That’s not your point here, though. Your point is a fair one.

          • Bob Lanz

            Neo the thing with Q is you really can’t predict how a player will make a move in this system. See Ben Smith

          • Z-man19

            might it have something to do with the quality of the people in front of him? I’m not saying Leddy should be top 4 right now, but decisions will need to be made in the next 15 months or so, if not sooner.

          • neo1978

            From the Telander? article the Hawks use statistical analysis in their decision making process. All three of the Hawks top defensemen have much better wowy numbers when NOT playing with Leddy. Since they have to have better data than I have, I think they know that.

            I don’t see the Hawks saving salary space on defensemen. And Oduya is worth more to the Hawks than to teams that don’t play as “roving” a style of offense.

          • Z-man19

            Odie at 34? Think he’ll sign again at a discount for his possible last contract?

          • neo1978

            No, but when a coach is looking at increasing a players time on ice or competition level it doesn’t just “jump” from nowhere. You will see it progressing.

          • zacked

            I think that’s true in general but I’m not sure that’s true when it comes to Q and his pairings.

          • Bob Lanz

            So your saying bolligs use last year indicated playing every signal game this season until today

          • Why

            I’m saying it suggested he was going to get more ice time when 3 forwards were traded or otherwise left.

          • Bob Lanz

            Ok well based on that I also figured Smith Hayes Pirri and Morin would get more ice time based on who left. Guess what they all did till some were traded too

          • Why

            Smith did get more ice time.

            How many playoff games did Hayes, Pirri and Morin play last year?

          • Bob Lanz

            Wow you really just want to se and hear what you want to. I wasn’t talking about last playoffs. If it was just playoffs Smith would have gotten more times the last 3 years

          • neo1978

            At the start of last season, Kruger and Frolik were playing a fourth line role when Bollig was with them and a checking role with a double shifted top 6 guy when Bollig was sitting.

            By the end of the season and in the playoffs; Kruger and Frolik were playing a checking role even when Bollig was with them on the ice.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            To be fair, Bollig was scratched in the playoffs. But that’s not really your point, I know.

          • neo1978
          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Played 5, yep.

          • Why

            I agree with you on Leddy here. I’m just not sure we have the full top 4 back next year.

          • birdhead

            It’s just that, by this measure, Leddy, Keith and Seabrook are all worse defensemen in the last two seasons than they were in 11-12: http://www.extraskater.com/players/dashboard?min_gp=1&season=2011&sort=qoc_toi&team=chi&pos=D#player-usage-charthttp://www.extraskater.com/players/dashboard?min_gp=1&season=2011&sort=qoc_toi&team=chi&pos=D#player-usage-chart (And Oduya saw quite a jump)

          • Why

            That was my point below and I think he explained this well. Although, I will say that if Q thinks he can use Seabrook and Keith against “weaker” competition and play the 5/6 defencemen against other opponents, it’s likely because he’s seeing something he likes out of the 5/6 defencemen. That’s not what appears to be happening with Leddy.

          • neo1978

            For 72, not if you look at where the data comes from. Hammers higher QoC numbers come from being paired with Kruger in a non-scoring purely shutdown role. 72 is still the number one pair playing with Toews.

            As for Leddy I don’t think it is any coincidence that the Hawks became a much better team when Hammer moved to the right side and Leddy moved to the 3rd pair.

          • birdhead

            What, you think the change in Leddy’s minutes is what caused Mike Smith’s ungodly save percentage in the Phoenix series?

          • Why

            I think it helped win the Stanley Cup in 2013.

          • birdhead
          • Why

            Not the problem. Adding Oduya helped. But I think we can create more chances the other way with our 3/4 pairing now.

            That’s not a knock on a good, young defencemen. But I like our pairings better now then I did then.

          • birdhead

            “But I think we can create more chances the other way with our 3/4 pairing now.”

            Well yeah but that’s because our 3/4 pairing is Keith/Seabrook. I’m not suggesting Leddy is better than either of those dudes or #4.

            I mean, you’re right, when you look at it that way that is a big difficulty: moving Leddy up to the second pairing means breaking up Keith-Seabrook somehow. How about Keith (he’s on the left isn’t he?)-Hjalmarsson, Leddy-Seabrook, Oduya-?

            We’re arguing counterfactuals here obviously. If Leddy was given a chance here, he would or wouldn’t have this kind of success, etc. I certainly think that the way Keith-Seabrook has been used is a big contributor to the Hawks’ success, I love our D as it is currently constituted, I like seeing Leddy slay bums. But I also think that Leddy has a higher ceiling and talent than the role he’s playing right now, and that with Oduya and Roszival not exactly spring chickens the defense is going to need a shakeup at some point and I don’t want it to come out of trading Leddy for some so-called shutdown D.

          • Why

            There is no way our 3/4 pairing is the current world tag team champions in the best defensive pair rankings (they won the belts from Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester in the last series). That’s the ceiling of Keith and Seabrook. Which they are currently playing at. That’s your #1 and #2.

            I’m not suggesting they trade Leddy. If he develops into a #4 guy, that’s awesome. But the point I see being made is he looks more like trade bait then a #4 guy for next year.

          • VerStig

            How awesome does our team have to be for our shutdown pairing to be our 3/4?

            Excuse me while I go Thornton

          • birdhead

            Neo says that you see development in guys, right? So if Leddy wants to see development, he has to see some slightly more tough competition and zone starts, right?

            At the moment, that doesn’t mean taking minutes off Oduya. That means taking minutes off Keith or Seabrook. That is why Leddy is getting the tight minutes he is, because it would be insane to take minutes off Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook to give to him, of course it would. But I find it difficult to knock Leddy for not being able to take minutes off those guys and, if that does make him tradebait, I think that trade is not going to get a return that reflects his talents.

          • Why

            What Neo’s talking about when he uses the word “development”, if I understand him correctly, is Q’s trust in particular players. Leddy’s numbers aren’t skewing in the way that suggests more time is forthcoming.

            What I’m talking about is whether he looks better than any of the top #4. I don’t think he does.

          • birdhead

            I just think it’s funny that Q trusted him more two years ago than he does now, just like he trusted Kane more two years ago than he does now.

          • Why

            Q didn’t have a full season of Oduya two years ago.

          • birdhead

            Even when he had Oduya he didn’t play him in tougher minutes than Leddy (and if you care to remember Oduya wasn’t that great in those playoffs)

          • Why

            He got Oduya in February of 2012. It made sense that he didn’t give the top #4 more of Leddy’s minutes a month and a half later. He’d just gotten his first extended look at Oduya.

          • neo1978

            Forget minutes, you have to make an effort as a coach to get those kinds of graph stratification’s. If Leddy was about to become a top 4 guy, Q would be rolling his d-pairs more and not matching up so strenuously. He is not protecting Rosi as he uses Rosi in the top 4 when someone is injured. Heck, he used Brookbank on the top line for the 3 games Seabrook missed. Q makes an effort to put Leddy in the bottom right of those graphs. If the Hawks were thinking of moving Leddy into the top 4, Q wouldn’t still be doing that…

          • Why

            He’s a DH right now. Handzus, only for offence.

            He can bring so much offence to the table that you want to give him a few shifts. But the other five guys are better in your own zone and in getting the puck up to the forwards, so what are you going to do if you’re Q?

          • CozBullsFan

            That would also require a partner for Leddy that could handle those minutes. That isn’t possible at the moment. Also, that partner would have to be on the same level as Leddy trust wise or Leddy would suffer.

          • Bob Lanz

            No there wasn’t, nice try

          • birdhead

            I don’t know about the regular season but he is right about the playoffs: http://www.extraskater.com/players/dashboard?team=chi&pos=F&min_gp=1&sort=qoc_toi&season=2012p#player-usage-chart of course he did only play 5 games compared to, e.g., the sheltered Stalberg’s 19. Which is a gross comparison for Leddy and if that happens I’ll cry

          • wowwowweewoo

            I totally agree. Leddy has shown development in his own end, but in order to take on a 2nd pairing role he’d have to seize it and prove he belongs with his play, which he hasn’t done. The best are good right away, a lot of others need to develop, and that’s OK, but if the aim of this team is to win the cup, league average defense isn’t going to do it. It’s the same thing with Pirri – kid was good, but we have very high standards here, and rightly so. In the end hawks brass didn’t see a #2 center on a cup contender.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Regular season Leddy has advanced more than playoff Leddy.

          • Accipiter

            The Anti-Bickell.

        • cliffkoroll

          Bob, Take off the TCI goggles for a moment. Leddy’s been getting his tires pumped here pretty good lately, but, in my opinion, he has plateaued for a couple years now after being a promising 21 year old back in 2012.

          I look over at Torey Krug and (20-year old) Dougie Hamilton (“I’m Dougie!”) in Boston and feel like Leddy hasn’t made that next step. Yet.

          • flahawkfan

            I agree, cliff. There are a lot of younger d-men who have bypassed Leddy. Krug and Hamilton, to be sure, but also guys like Faulk and Murphy for the Canes, and others. Leddy had a ton of potential, and he’s not awful, but he hasn’t gotten better. I fear he’s not got the hockey smarts the Hawks require. But I haven’t completely given up on him quite yet.

  • neo1978

    You were right CNS, that goal wasn’t going to be blamed on Morin. That goal was on Handzus for not covering both of the men he was left with more closely. Looking forward to your GIF.

    • Z-man19

      So Zus did nothing wrong there?

      • Accipiter

        Morin was the first forward back, IIRC.

        • Bob Lanz

          I need to watch this again.

        • Z-man19

          Yes he was, not saying he was perfect but he put himself about where he should have IMO. Probably puck watched too much but I’m not sure why Zus is headed for the same spot Morin already occupies

          • Why

            Look, I know Morin’s getting the usual Bollig treatment from some of us right now. But he can’t just stand in the slot covering no one.

          • Z-man19

            I’ll agree to that, but shouldn’t Zus be aware there is a guy to his left uncovered. He stops at the top of the slot to cover who? Wouldn’t any trailing players be Steeg’s responsibility? IMO, Zus should continue towards the net and yes Morin needs to not be mesmerized by the puck

          • 1benmenno

            Could more than one player have committed an error?

          • CozBullsFan

            Yes, but that doesn’t matter around these here parts.

          • putmeinthemadhouse

            only when morin is involved, apparently.

          • Why

            Here’s what I saw.

            1. Zus and Bollig needs to be benched. #FreeMorin.
            2. Bollig gets benched.
            3. Morin makes a mistake.
            4. Here’s why Morin’s mistake was on Zus.

          • ChicagoNativeSon

            Oh for Christ’s sake you guys whining about poor Morin.

            If that goal occurred with Bollig out there you’d be calling for his actual execution.

          • Why

            I think PMITMH and I are on your side. Disqus sucks, man.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Can we do that?

          • neo1978

            Well that is silly. While multiple players usually make mistakes on any given goal, there is usually one guy that makes the “dam broke” play. You know the one where everyone else is trying to rotate to cover for that error.

            And I have already documented all goals for this seasons playoffs in one of these threads (JenLC?). So I have singled out various players for primary mental or physical errors including the captain on one of them…

          • Why

            I think you’re missing his/her point here (I’m just guessing based on the upvote of my post below). I read that comment as essentially saying “There’s plenty of blame to go around when Morin is involved. If it’s someone else, we just blame that guy.” I could be wrong here though.

          • neo1978

            Not from the other thread, no. I think I’m interpreting it correctly.

          • Why

            You could be right here. You know what I’m basing my opinion on. What was said in the other thread?

          • Z-man19

            Yes, plenty of errors to go around.

          • neo1978

            Coming back against odd man rushes, the generic answer is to take the first uncovered guy. Handzus did that. He was also the most dangerous uncovered player to receive the pass. I don’t think Q is upset with that choice.

          • Z-man19

            Zus has time to count where everyone is at, why he stops where he does makes no sense. Morin could obviously do better but so could Zus. Also, the fact that Q didn’t bench Zus should not come as any surprise or as an indication that Zus has no fault in that mess

          • Why

            I’m responding to this late, but when Zus sees who Morin is covering (answer: no one) who should Zus cover? Unless the answer is somehow everyone, I’m unsure why this one is on Zus.

            I’ve now read two wraps that don’t mention Morin at all but do take pains to mention Zus. That’s not on you but I’m confused. I can see the argument that Zus didn’t play it perfectly. I don’t see how you can mention Zus without mentioning Morin.

          • Why

            Note: Awkward phrasing. When I say you, I mean people that only blame Zus. Is there such a thing as the royal “you”?

          • ChicagoNativeSon

            Of course Morin isn’t mentioned but “we’ve been complaining about him all year” Zus is. Do you really read this or any other blog for objectivity?

          • Why

            No. I like seeing other viewpoints and accept that they are simply other viewpoints. Crazy viewpoints that always want to shift the blame towards Zus, Seabrook, Bollig or Q but still, it beats not talking hockey.

          • ChicagoNativeSon

            I’ll drink to that.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Okay, was it an odd man rush? And anyway, Handzus tried to do that but failed. The man he’s covering was covered for about a half second inside the blue pine. Morin fucked the pooch, too,but Handzus wasn’t wasn’t any prettier.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            It’s a perfect situation for a shift. Morin stays with that guy, Zus shifts over to the trailer. Unless you want Morin skating across Zus over more ice to do the same thing.

          • Why

            Then shift. Cover someone. He got lost.

          • Z-man19

            so did Zus

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Yes. I know this. Are we having two conversations?

          • Why

            Kind of. There’s other posts on the board suggesting the goal wasn’t on Morin. I want to make sure we’re all clear on the fact that the goal was somewhat on Morin. We seem to be. Moving on.

          • Z-man19

            I concur, but I will say Morin does a poor job reacting to the guy coming right down the slot, that guy is by him long before he reacts to it

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            He is absolutely not faultless, but two bad things happen on that back check, not to mention Leddy’s coverage of the pass across … the only thing bad that can happen at that point.

          • ChicagoNativeSon

            And that’s it right there, Z-man. As F1, Morin pulls up above the circle – PULLS UP ABOVE THE CIRCLE!!

            But he’s actually not anywhere near where he should be (you suggest he’s “about where he should have” been). He needs to be looking for trailers, but mostly heading toward the net. Never pulling up there.

            He pulls up, covering no one, and puck watches. Then he realizes “OH SHIT! I’m supposed to be covering someone – or be somewhere else – I’m not sure!?” and turns to head towards the net, but everyone’s past him already. And he still can’t decide who to cover.

            The situation is so fucked that Rozsival is stuck facing a 3 on 1.

            It may not seem like a big deal to some, but it’s a huge deal in terms of basic defensive responsibility. F1 has these main responsibilities (right out of multiple manuals):
            * play down low
            * support D1 battling for the puck
            * always stay in between your man and the net
            * do not over commit where one pass can beat two players (yourself and D1)

            Morin did none of them which caused a chain reaction of fucked.

          • Why

            Your post is a very intelligent and detailed breakdown. Here’s a simpler one.

            If you are on defence you should be:
            a) On a man;
            b) Between your man and the net; or
            c) Between two men to take away a pass.

            If your current positioning would make someone believe that the answer is d), then you are not in the right position.

          • Z-man19

            That’s about what I figured, I’m not so sure he doesn’t stop in the right place put he is definitely way too late in deciding to move. However, even if Morin does drop, the Wild still end up with a 3 on 2 given what Zus does.

      • Bob Lanz

        He is Zues god of PK shot blocking no wrong can be found. Except he is a lil bit slow, can’t center a second line or third line and shouldn’t really be a center on the fourth line either.

      • neo1978

        Morin didn’t pick up a guy even though he was first forward back. Like for the entire play. Forced Handzus to cover two guys. Handzus took the closer to the play guy for the initial pass. Once that happened, he gave that guy back to Morin, who again didn’t cover him. And yes, Morin got benched after that play, Handzis did not…

        • Bob Lanz

          I will take your account if it but is this some kind if bullshit way of saying you want Bollig back in

          • Accipiter

            Jesus, he is saying it wasn’t all Handzus’ fault like the wrap up suggests.

          • Bob Lanz

            What’s Jesus got to do with it. Oh and fuck off for having no patience with my query. I was asking him not you Accipter.

            #nomorebolligever

          • Accipiter

            I’ll be here slamming my head off the table if you need me.

          • DuHawk

            Don’t damage the table.

          • Z-man19

            are you done yet?

          • Z-man19

            ok, seriously, I’m getting worryd

          • 1benmenno

            We may have to find a new pivot.

          • Z-man19

            You’re close to his house, go check on him

          • 1benmenno

            I’m old. You go check on him.

          • DuHawk

            Pot, meet kettle.

          • Z-man19

            you just don’t care for him do you? I’m the only one concerned for ‘cip, you all should feel shame

          • Why

            I don’t see you going over there either.

          • Z-man19

            I’m a good 15 hours from there and don’t have a valid passport, otherwise I’d be on my way

          • Why

            Winners make improvements. All I hear from you is excuses.

          • 1benmenno

            What has he done for us lately?

          • Z-man19

            he didn’t return your abacus did he?

          • DuHawk

            Knowing what you people do with abacuses (abaci?), I wouldn’t want it back.

          • Z-man19

            you don’t know menno very well do you?

          • Why

            New TCI rule: We need weaker tables.

          • Z-man19

            that or get ‘cip a helmet

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            We should just build them from the popular narratives then

          • 1benmenno

            Ha!

          • Why

            Message boards are a terrible place to ask one person a question.

          • neo1978

            Especially a disqus board where half the replies are to “.”

          • CozBullsFan

            When you see reply to “.”, that’s a reply to you.

        • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

          As first forward backchecking, Morin’s supposed to take the puck carrier. He does but puck carrier gets past him and Leddy angles him off. So Morin takes the centre of the ice. Handzus should recognize that coverage (he’s got it all in front of him) and so should take the trailer.

          What I do wonder, though, is that since Q is all about back pressure–it’s why we always, always send our first forward back to the puck carrier–why doesn’t Morin stay with his check and pressure him. He should know Zus is following down the centre of the ice.

          So I think Morin’s made a mistake, but not the one you’re saying (not exactly). I also think Zus makes the mistake of a poor read on Morin’s positioning … he should have drifted.

          • Why

            There is never a good reason to be covering no one in the slot, while simultaneously not taking any passing lane away.

            It was one bad play. I don’t want to hang the kid for it or have that negatively impact the obvious potential he has. But it was a poor read and play.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            He falls asleep on the play. Handzus falls asleep on the play (or can’t skate to where he wants to go). In any case, they both fall asleep covering the same guy. And imagine, that’s the guy that gets the puck and scores.

            It’s also after a neutral zone faceoff win when they got the puck into the o-zone against their fourth line. Naughty naughty.

          • neo1978

            I don’t have a problem with Morin giving the puck carrier to Leddy. I have a problem with Morin then stopping and not looking back. He needs to show Handzus that he has the next guy so that Handzus can take the other one. Without Morin taking the next guy, I am pretty sure Handzus is correct in what he did. It is a 1 against 2 for Handzus with Morin completely out of the play. The only possible thing Handzus did wrong is giving that guy to a now turned around Morin after the pass. Morin still didn’t take his guy even when he was looking right at him…

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I pretty much agree with what you’re saying here, I just think Zus has to share in the culpability, facing the play as he is. Three Wild players get below everyone but Rozsival. Badness. But I do suspect, with Q’s system, that he’d have preferred Morin going after the puck carrier, even with Leddy there.

          • Why

            Zus got back in time to see a clusterfuck where two guys were uncovered. He covered someone.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Heh. See, this is where we diverge … Zus covered a guy for two blinks inside the blue line … until he didn’t. He loses him before he even reaches the circles. If Zus isn’t supposed to shift to the trailer then he better make sure McCormick is covered for those moments when he’s skating as well as coasting. We can praise Zus for covering a guy, yes, but what about when he loses him a half beat later?

            They both fucked up huge, imo.

          • neo1978

            I think there is an expiration date on when the forward should give the puck carrier solely to the d-man. And from what I see it usually happens at the circles. With Morin, he lost contact much earlier than that but once it was broken, I think he is then supposed to look at the second wave and not try and get back to the puck carrier.

            If Morin was indeed supposed to go back to the puck carrier than Handzus was 100% correct in taking the guy he initially did. Either way, the “dam broke” mental error that turned that play into a fire drill was still on Morin.

        • Peter Turner

          Rosie was covering Stoner. Leddy was still stuck at the boards with Haula. Zus, Steeg and Morin were just standing around with deer in the headlights look going Oshiiiiieeet

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Looked to me like no one was in a hurry to get back. Plenty of blame to go around on that one

      • DuHawk

        Zus may have been in a hurry, but it’s hard to tell.

        • CozBullsFan

          Hah!

        • Z-man19

          no, he stops or mostly stops right about the time the pass is made

          • DuHawk

            He’s an old man; he needed a break.

            As an old man yourself, you should understand.

          • Z-man19

            you bastard

        • 1benmenno

          Brill!

    • DesertHawk

      Bollig loses his man, goal is scored, OFF WITH HIS HEAD WHAT THE HELL Q!!!!!

      Morin loses his man, goal is scored, MORIN HAD A PRETTY GOOD GAME, WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG Q!!!

      • putmeinthemadhouse

        Its kinda funny.

      • Why

        Sam’s stuff is awesome. That wrap was fun to read. But we all have our whipping boys. Mine is Leddy.

        • DesertHawk

          I try not to whip anyone. I will blindly defend Crow all day long though.
          /biases

          • Joe Banks

            Crow is stealing all the ammo from his haters.

        • Bob Lanz

          Thanks for the honesty. Mine is Bollig

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Mine is Vrbata.

      • 2883

        Someone needs to create a TCI Blame FlowChart.
        Was it Seabrook’s fault? if yes, Seabrook sucks, if no…
        Was it Steegers fault? if yes, fuck you Bowman, if no…
        Was it Bollig’s fault? if yes, fuck you Q, if no…
        Was it Zus’s fault, if yes, fuck you old age, if no….

        #IthadtobeBoynton

        • Why

          There is no way Steeger is ahead of Q on the fault line.

          But good point. I think it goes:
          1. Bollig
          2. Quenneville
          3. Zus

          Everyone’s been pretty cool about Seabrook lately.

          • 2883

            I was just bringing up the usual whipping boys, I didn’t necessarily put them in the correct order, because the order may differ depending on your leans.

          • putmeinthemadhouse

            except whoever wrote the wrap at hockeenight after game 1…

          • Bob Lanz

            And now their wrap up of game two. Seabrook sucks is the name if the tune

          • 1benmenno

            It’s a bit much

          • putmeinthemadhouse

            not really sure why hes complaing about the bottom six being shit after the saad kruger nordstrom line handled their business…

          • Why

            Nordstrom’s been awesome. Thrown into major minutes after not being a regular all year. He’s been this series’s Brookbank.

            Am I taking crazy pills? Why would anyone be down on Nordstrom?

          • putmeinthemadhouse

            because his first name isnt jeremy and his last name isnt morin

          • Why

            Also, he’s not replacing Bollig. Whose extra $325,000 cap hit that can’t be buried is a major problem.

          • Why

            Holy christ. I just read their game 2 wrap too.

            Seabrook is on the Hockeenight fault line.

        • birdhead

          Crow has to be on there somewhere

          • Why

            We like Crow. We were one of the few places that likes Crow, but we like Crow.

          • DesertHawk

            Y’all haven’t always liked Crow…

          • Why

            True. I did not like Crow after 2012. But he has been off the fault line since 2013.

          • DesertHawk

            2012 Sophomore Season, everyone has a slump. I’m glad you guys have started to come around though… that was a long year, just me and my number 50 winter classic style alternate.

          • Why

            You have been proven right on this one.

        • 2883

          Was it Crawford’s fault? If yes, Did the goal go in on his glove hand? If yes, #Glovehand. If no, #Contract . if no…

          • Why

            That’s the mainstream media fault line. We have our own fault line.

      • Why

        Morin didn’t even lose his man. It’s Handzus’s fault.

    • Peter Turner

      Watched the play. Leddy gets blamed for that goal because when the puck crossed the centerline towards Leddy, he could have easily reached out and deflected it or even controlled it with his speed. Instead he let it go and decided he’d rather go 1-1 with Haula and guess who won.

  • putmeinthemadhouse

    Leddy hasnt been very good these two games, the goal against was probably what tipped him in the doghouse

  • DuHawk

    I’m out. G’night friends.

    • 1benmenno

      G’night Du. Schlaf gut

    • bizarrohairhelmet

      Adieu

    • VerStig

      Ciao

  • bizarrohairhelmet

    Why is the Wild board less contentious and more peaceful than this place?

    • 1benmenno

      Drunk on success and we’re ugly drunks

      • Z-man19

        speak for yourself

        • 1benmenno

          Visors

      • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

        We’re pretty damned ugly sober, too.

        • Why

          I blame the tables.

          • Joe Banks

            I blame the mirrors.

    • putmeinthemadhouse

      because they are from minnesota.

      • DesertHawk

        Are Minnesotans even allowed to get grumpy?

        • Z-man19

          They aren’t Canadians, so yes

          • 1benmenno

            Why I oughta . . .

          • DesertHawk

            They’re like South Canadians…

          • Joe Banks

            Yup. RedNucks.

        • Stockroom Snail

          Grumpy Old Men was based in Minnesota, right?

          …but it is Canada Jr.

    • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

      Cause they’re jerks who don’t know what’s good for them.

    • Bob Lanz

      Cause we know how good are team really is and can be and disagree on how to get there. I think I’m not really sure

    • Why

      Because they’re resigned to their fate. As they should be.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      We ran out of scotch.

    • Accipiter

      They know their fate ?

      • neo1978

        They haven’t even gotten to the Hawks yet. They are still fighting Avs trolls

        • CR64

          Sadly true. Fuck those D-Bags I really am glad the Wild bounced em. I’d might have to freak the hell out if those assholes sullied our domain.

          • Why

            That was kind of it. The Avs hit a lot of hot buttons around here. They were much better than their shot attempt stats. They have a guy accused of domestic abuse. They gave the Hawks fits in the regular season. I think a lot of people were geared up to watch that series.

            The Wild? They’re a respectable team that is tough to beat if you don’t play your best game. They have some talent. They always seem to overachieve but have not really been a threat to the Hawks for the last two years. They’re not particularly physical. They’re not winning and tonight they couldn’t even manage to put the puck on net in a game where they were losing most of the way. It’s tough, as a fan, to get a good hate on.

          • CR64

            Wholeheartedly Agreed Except Cooke. Fuck that guy.

          • Why

            And he’s been suspended. How much can you hate a guy in the press box?

          • Accipiter

            People still hated Bollig tonight.

          • Why

            Yeah but that’s Bollig. He plays for our team and sometimes fights. He’s also not a burner. Some people still have some Jon Scott jokes they haven’t used up yet. What are you going to do?

          • Why

            Second point: My guess is that Wild fans could not give two shits about Bollig.

          • CR64

            Actually read a couple of comments on HW of “Oh shit they scratched Bollig for Morin, we’re boned.”

          • Why

            That’s interesting. They must read these threads. The Bollig hate here is so strong that the “backup QB syndrome” is for anyone behind Bollig.

            There’s nothing wrong with Morin. There’s talent there. But Bollig is far more useful than most people give him credit for. And Morin still has a ways to go.

          • CR64

            Agreed. Just had a conversation today about how the team is stocked for the next 15 years. Why rush it??

          • Accipiter

            That is only Keith and Hossa.
            There are a few important contracts on the horizon.

          • CR64

            While faith is my long suit I have it in Bowman & Co. It cant be as bad a Capocolypse TM

          • Why

            They will need to be very good at hitting draft picks or developing players. They can’t afford to pay third and fourth liners 3 million plus because Sharp, Hossa, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith and Crawford are going to take up such a large percentage of the cap. That’s before Bickell and Hjammer’s deals come in to play.

          • cliffkoroll

            Keith at $5.538 million through 2023 (age 40) looks like a good deal. I suspect he’ll be a bargain for most of that period.

          • Why

            The dirty secret is they might not be. It’s tough to replace defencemen. If they can’t stash Hossa and Keith on the LTIR when they’ve decided that they’d like to go, they’re going to have to operate like a have not team for the purposes of the cap. They’ve had young players and players with low cap hits (Smith, Saad and Shaw especially, Bickell last year, Nordstrom this year and I’m probably missing a few) come in and play better than we had any right to expect them to.

            This is a great team right now. Take advantage of it right now. Try to win as much as possible right now. If you can build for the future at the same time, that’s great. But we should be focused on the now (How many times can I repeat now?)

          • CR64

            I was speaking more of the pipeline. Yes always aim for the present but also the future doesn’t exactly look gloomy

          • Why

            I don’t get the love for the pipeline but I don’t follow Rockford enough. Kim’s stuff here is solid but I do often gloss over it. They’ve got some young talent there. Teuvo’s exciting. Maybe those defencemen will turn into high quality, NHL level guys but D-men are even more of a crap shoot than other players.

            I hope you’re right but I’m not as high on it as everyone else is.

          • CR64

            While prospects are a crap shoot some of these guys (Morin, Johns, Teuvo, LeBlah) are blue chippers. Do I expect hem to be the next coming, no but I expect them to be decent at best.

          • Why

            Why does everyone love Leblanc and Johns? Defencemen crap out all the time and learning to play in the NHL is difficult. And as far as Leblanc goes, if you have to play college hockey long enough to win the Hobey, you hit the league late and generally weren’t that highly regarded.

            They’ve done well for themselves and have potential. But they’re not blue chippers at this stage of their development.

            Teuvo was just the best or 2nd best player at the U20′s. Teuvo is a blue chipper.

            EDIT: I missed the part about the Hobey. I don’t hate college hockey.

          • CR64

            Meh it’s far down the road. We will have to see.

          • Why

            My point’s the opposite. Down the road could be tough. This team is stacked right now. I’m not sure why we’re adopting a “wait and see” approach to this particular team.

            Let Edmonton, Colorado and Calgary fans talk about potential and what might be. We get to see top level hockey right now.

          • CR64

            Damn straight. Rack’s calling my name. Good debate Have a good night mate.

          • Accipiter

            Yup. Not many teams have as many ‘game breakers’ as the Hawks. So many good players.

          • Why

            I’ll admit that’s what gets my dander up the most about team selection discussion around here:

            “Let Morin show what he can do.”

            “I sure hope Q doesn’t screw up Leddy’s development.”

            “We need to make sure Pirri gets ice time, Handzus is not the answer at 2C and won’t be around for much longer.”

            Pirri, Morin, and Leddy can help the team right now or get good enough that they can help this team in the very near future (note: they have helped, Leddy especially). If not, they’ll have to go somewhere else. No disrespect to any of them but this isn’t a team that’s main focus can afford to be on the long term.

          • Why

            I also missed the part on Morin having a 22 year old Swedish kid come over and take a spot from him. A lot of that’s on Nordstrom (who looks awesome) but it makes me a little less sold on Morin.

          • Peter Turner

            Don’t forget we got a 7ft defenseman there too. I wanna see someone look down on Chara.

            http://www.icehogs.com/team/players/index.html?player_id=174

          • lizmcneill

            That’s why we can’t sign any more non-core UFA-aged guys to long, $$$$ contracts. Keep rotating the kids through and ship them for draft picks when they aren’t kids any more (alas, poor Bolly).

      • Why

        They’ve also overachieved in the playoffs. They made the final 8. I’ve got a lot of respect for what they’ve accomplished but they don’t have a top ten roster from what I can see. Parise is good. Suter is efficient. After that, I’m not sure what the plan is.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    Bicks named NHL first star, Hossa third star.

    In other news, pigs close to learning flight.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    And if you think we had some bad line changes, here’s Dragon Boy, our very own Teuvo in Finland …..

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/watch-team-finland-execute-the-clumsiest-line-change-in-hockey-history–video-162819683.html

    • VerStig

      There’s a guy there who looks familiar. Where have I seen him before?

      • ChicagoNativeSon

        Tevo it and let us know?

    • bizarrohairhelmet

      So HIQ can’t even make the national team…uh oh. Did anybody else buy a bridge from him when he was here?

      • Accipiter

        He’s my Druce.

        #Haiku

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          He ain’t heavy.

  • http://www.our-founding.com/ Toews makes funny faces (TMFF)

    This should cause some headplosions

    “Scratch Versteeg and Leddy, Roster in Brookbank and Bollig. We need grit without Shaw.”

  • Accipiter
  • Accipiter

    Saad’s mullet is better than Kaner’s.

    • birdhead

      well, yeah

    • Joe Banks

      Stoner was jealous.

  • CR64

    Guys I am truly sorry and I dont mean to gripe but I have one simple question… WHY THE BLUE HELL ARE WE SCRAPPING WITH EACH OTHER???? Our team is on fire right now, they hold a 2-0 lead in the series and we’re talking about whipping boys and who’s mistake led to the one GA today. We are in golden times folks let’s not fucking forget that. We are the envy of the entire league. Frankly we should be sunshine and G.D. daisies right now. /rant over

    • Why

      All true. And Morin wasn’t terrible tonight.

      But Bollig and Zus can’t get blamed for everything.

      • Accipiter

        No. Seabrook has to get some blame as well.

        • Why

          Did you see him just on the bench doing nothing when they scored? Show some damn fire.

          • Accipiter

            How dare he cover for Keith on that terrible pass up the middle of the D zone.

          • Why

            #FreeBrookbank

    • bizarrohairhelmet

      We’re a squad of loud, stupid, entitled hockey fans who have no idea how to appreciate a good team when we finally get one?

      • Accipiter

        Why can’t the Hawks be more Avalanche like ?

      • CR64

        I didn’t mean for my rant to be taken the wrong way. Blame should be accounted for where applicable but I look down the line and all I see is blame. I’m not feeling cocky about anything but damn I thought there would be a little bit of “Oh Hell yeah, this team is on fire”

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          You can’t take anything I say seriously. Or I can’t. One of us shouldn’t. Maybe both.

          • CR64

            … And down the sarchasm I go. They should really build a bridge there!

        • Why

          This team is on fire. If you see fourth liners getting blame, that’s a good sign. If it’s Seabrook’s fault, we’re in trouble. If someone ever blames Hjammer everything is fucked.

          I am feeling cocky. I don’t think the Wild can beat the Hawks in 4 out of 5 games if the Hawks play well. And I trust this team to not take anyone lightly, even if I do.

          EDIT: 4 out of 5. Anyone can win a game.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            I’m going to need more than “Engblom said it” before I get on the Hockeenight Seabrook BlameTrain.

          • Why

            You’re right. The above is the TCI fault line. I don’t read Hockeenight nearly as often but judging by the last two wraps, I’m just assuming Seabrook being part of the bad is part of their postgame template.

          • CR64

            Good man. I really think that the troll shook some confidence from the main posters. It was funny snarky for a while. Now it’s Lord of the Flies in here half the damn time.

          • Why

            This is the playoffs. Lord of the Flies is normal. Once Toews gets his shiny, silver conch back I’ll start getting relaxed.

          • CR64

            WOOO No adults!!!

    • Accipiter

      Lanzer is backed up.
      He hasn’t been at the cj in a while.

      • CR64

        Ok Damn it feels like I’m carrying the damn CJ lately. My damn arms tired

    • birdhead

      We’re not mad, are we? IDK, maybe neo and why are really mad at me, but I’ve found it an interesting discussion and I’ve learned a lot.

      • Accipiter

        No one is mad, bro.

        /I know you are not a bro

        • birdhead

          whew :)

      • Why

        Why I hef to be mad? This is me being relaxed.

        • birdhead

          same!

      • CR64

        Meh it was a heat of the moment rant. After I read it it sounded a little worse than I wanted it to. I’m just a positive person and some of the debate was harshing my admittedly shitty gin buzz. I apologize for that.

        • Why

          Never apologize for a buzz. That’s one of the rules around here.

        • birdhead

          hey, don’t apologise, I just wanted to offer a different spin on the conversation.

          • CR64

            Cool. I just thought the troll unit had made some people on edge a little bit and I had to get that off my chest. But I still push all of my friends to this place to join the hive mind regardless

      • Z-man19

        ditto

      • ChicagoNativeSon

        Huh, me mad? And at you? No.

    • Hawkeytalk

      Debate is good. But in general, there isn’t a lot of stuff to complain about, so nits get picked.

      I do get tired of reading through all the back and forth; I wish that once consensus is reached there’s a “final conclusion” post. Cliff Notes if you will.

  • Why

    That guy is probably mad.

    • Hawkeytalk

      I’m afraid to click.

  • Andrew Heitman

    What are the chances that Bickells uptick here is more about him finally getting to 100% from his knee issues and less about playoffs? Just a thought.

    • wowwowweewoo

      And Patrick Kane’ down year in 2012 was because of wrist surgeory?

      • Andrew Heitman

        Could be- there is a big gap between being able to play and being 100%. They never really disclose the injury or the state of it to the public.
        Bickell’s game started getting better about 10 games prior to the playoffs- sort of unnoticeable as the roster was in such flux, but really he has been getting better each game starting about a month ago.

        • wowwowweewoo

          I think his regular season performance had a lot to do with his injury. I’m expecting to see Steeger progress next year too. Knee surgeory is tough. Didn’t Brickell also have wrist surgeory too?

          • Andrew Heitman

            Would be nice…if Steeger is still around next season.

            I think Bicks had a bunch of stuff done after the playoffs.

    • QCBlackhawk

      And maybe not being buried on the ass end of nowhere lines?

      • Andrew Heitman

        That certainly helps. But there was a reason he jumped up to 1. And I dont think “its the playoffs” is a magical switch.

        JR keeps pounding this theory that since its a short season he can play harder nonsense. He can play harder because he literally can play harder…

        • QCBlackhawk

          While I’m not discounting the fact the dude should be able to put up numbers anywhere for the amount he’s getting paid, if we got him the hookup in the first place for producing with the A-game guys, why not put him there to continue to do what got him paid in the first place.

          Injury/ice time definitely had some influence, but where we’re putting him against a large or defensive minded team matters.

          • Andrew Heitman

            Of course it does. And my point isnt that this a single driving force. But what Im saying is that we has stuck on lines that get sheltered for a reason. He was less reliable because of his tentative behavior due to the knee injury. You couldnt put him on the top line, in tough situations, because he just wasnt ready or able to keep up (figure out why Handzus got the look at 2C given this logic and you may as well move into the front office…). But I think the major factor behind his “bust” of a regular season is the injury and the lingering effects.

            They are obviously aware of his salary which sort of even proves my point further- he just wasnt ready to play at the level that got him paid.

            This myth of playoff magic is fun, but I am not so sure its the real reason behind this switch.

    • Beastoftheeast81

      His knee absolutely had something to do with his early regular season woes but what it boils down to is that there are humans who’s competitive juices only really begin to flow when everything is on the line. The effort, hustle, conscious thought even, and will all raise a level due to the heightened risk/reward around them being experienced.

      • Andrew Heitman

        I dont know, that just doesnt stick with me. He was battling for ice time.

        My point is more that he was tentative because he didnt trust the knee until the last month of the season. I recovered from FAI hip surgery and even in my beer league, I knew I could compete more and more every month. I was out there initially, but I didnt trust a damn thing…finely tuned beer consuming athletic machine that I am….cough.

        I think the playoff story is a nice fairy tale and we all love it. But I think there is a real explanation for his switch. 1) He wasnt 100% until the end of the season when he was stuck on crappy lines 2) he was 100% and playing with Toews and Hossa…which means he can be more aggressive.

  • CozBullsFan

    Just flag it and move on. It’s spam.