USATSI_7298127_160885884_lowres

No Rest For The Wicked

To the surprise of exactly no one with a functioning brain, it’s been announced today that Stan Bowman will use the Hawks’ two “Compliance Buyouts” on Steve Montador and Rusty Olesz.

This will free up some much needed cap room, and these two players were the two obvious choices. But Bowman can’t and won’t stop there.

What’s basically going to happen is Monty and Rusty are going to be put on waivers first, and if no one claims them, the Hawks will be able to erase their salaries from the cap, as in the new CBA veteran contracts can’t be buried in the AHL or elsewhere. Should a team claim them, which they won’t, this will save the Hawks from using one of their two buyouts that could be executed either now or next summer. When this inevitably happens, this should kill any and all imbecilic speculation that the Hawks could or would use a buyout on Marian Hossa or Duncan Keith’s cap circumventing contracts that now come with a stiff penalty for retirement prior to the deal’s completion. This was never a realistic option, just merely a meatball Portillo’s fart of an idea, as if he were the first one to come up with it. These are two cornerstone players of this franchise, and even though the cap recouping penalties are stiff, there is still one remaining loophole that both the Flyers and Bruins are still using, which is Long Term Injured Reserve.

Both Marc Savard and Chris Pronger will never play in the NHL again, and that’s a sad reality. But neither can retire yet due to the financial ramifications that are presented to their clubs if they do, in both cases due to front-loaded deals, and Pronger has the cherry on top of his being of the 35+ variety. So they sit in limbo currently until their deals expire properly. If and when Marian Hossa calls it a career, look for this to be the Hawks’ way out. Furthermore, with Hossa’s back problems during the playoffs more than likely requiring surgery, he’d be ineligible for a buyout this summer anyway, as the CBA prohibits doing so on injured players. So what is left is the natural conclusion of cutting bait with the two biggest financial anchors relative to performance the Hawks have on the roster.

Also making the rounds is that Dave Bolland is available to anyone who wants him, as confirmed by no less of sources than Uncle Bob (McKenzie) and Pierre LeBrun.

Kudos to Stan Bowman for not letting sentimentality get in the way of what is a sound hockey decision. Yes, Bolland has been a member of two cup teams, but he will be unrestricted next year, removal his $3.375 cap hit would provide some room to breathe, and most importantly, his production has gone to nearly non-existent, Monday night notwithstanding. Yes, Bolland scored a cup winning goal, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was a millstone around Patrick Kane’s neck for 47ish games, forcing Kane to lead the conference in scoring largely in spite of him. He was also passed on the depth chart in the playoffs by a 36 year old Michal Handzus who had a sprained MCL and broken wrist, and Andrew Shaw who had not played center prior to this year. At best, Bolland will likely go for a 2nd and/or 3rd rounder this weekend, making up for the two picks sent to The Peg to acquire Johnny Oduya. But with 19:07 of the third period of Game 6 still fresh in the memories of GM’s around the league, the haul could be slightly more.

The Hawks have options to replace Bolland in the system, with Brandon Pirri leading the AHL in scoring and Drew LeBlanc and his GIANT FACE coming off a Hobey Baker winning season in the NCAA, and they’ll be given every chance to make the opening night roster. But there are also options out there in free agency. Matt Cullen has long been the apple of this blog’s eye and appears to be leaving Minnesota, and has the crafty veteran hands that could fit in well. Defensive ace and faceoff whiz Boyd Gordon from Phoenix is on the market as well. Both could potentially be had combined for at or around what Bolland is going to make.

Oh, and some guy named Vinny something is out there now too. To dream the impossibly handsome dream.

 

  • dbroadhu

    Any word on what Vinny will be going for on the open market?

    • cliffkoroll

      Well, more wealth than you can imagine!

      • 334Rules

        I don’t know, I can imagine quite a bit.

    • ExOnMS

      We were discussing this earlier, I’ve heard as low as 2.5 (ridiculous) and as high as 5.5. I’m guessing whatever he goes for, it’s going to be more than the Hawks can pay.

    • CozBullsFan

      Doesn’t really matter what he may go for. It’s almost a given that he will end up in Montreal. They have 9 mil+ of cap space and he is from Quebec.

      • Why

        Does he want to go there? The French media thinks the Habs will get every French free agent. The French media is usually wrong. I’ll wait until I see the signing.

        • CozBullsFan

          I wasn’t basing my opinion on what the French media said. He is an upgrade at C for them. They have the cap space to sign him for what he wants. He will get what he wants because they want local players.

          • Waylon

            Yeah, and that’s usually all they want, which is one of many reasons why they haven’t been very good until recently. I think their new GM will put a stop to that BS.

          • CozBullsFan

            No disagreement about why they haven’t been very good. Signing him would still be an upgrade though.

          • Why

            No doubt.

          • Why

            No doubt. I’ve just heard other French players say they’d prefer not to sign in Montreal. And my guess is Lecavalier will more than one suitor. Not saying he won’t end up in Montreal, I’m just not sure it’s a given.

  • thefearlessfreep

    Great write-up Matt. Didn’t know about the long-term injured reserve loophole, and nice to know that there are some palatable options out there that work within the Hawks’ financial parameters. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks get off to a slow start this coming year due to the shortened off-season coupled with Stanley hangover, but at least they’ll have plenty of season to recover.

    • http://excitablehonky.tumblr.com/ Honky

      I second the salute on the terrific write-up—more specifically for addressing the nonsense that Hossa needs to be bought out to avoid the cap recapture. Somebody please forward this post to Larry Brooks, since he seems to have no understanding of how LTIR works.

      • Why

        The question is always when the league steps in. Don’t forget, we saw a whole bunch of contracts ignored by the league until the Kovalchuk deal pushed them over the edge. Now, Hossa is still good enough and old guys tend to be banged up after years of hockey that you probably have to take the risk. Just don’t forget that it’s not just the league’s suspension policy that can seem random.

  • cliffkoroll

    Dude, you almost sound miffed that Bolland got the GWG.

    Dave’s #1 issue has always been durability. As far as I’m concerned, the sample size for Bolland performing in meaningful games is plenty large enough. When the chips are down and you need one, I take Bolland over good-hockey-player-but-douchebag-Matt-Cullen 100% of the time, every time.

    Alas, this is a luxury the team can no longer afford, apparently.

    • Andrew Cieslak

      Why is Matt Cullen a douchebag and Dave Bolland isn’t? How is that relevant?

    • cliffkoroll

      Which gets to another point that’s been rattling around in my head: attrition.

      The short season, IMO, was great for hockey and great for the Hawks. Drawing Minnesota and Detroit helped too.

      Still, by the end, every locker room is a MASH unit.

      In an 82-game season, winning has a lot to do with surviving attrition. Guys like Toews, Keith, and Kane may be able to survive 100+ games in one piece, but these guys are in limited supply.

      A young Hossa could do it too, but you gotta put Hossa and Sharp down for at least 10 missed games a year going forward, right?

      It’s almost like ya gotta field four or five placeholders to absorb the grind of the regular season, then bench them come the playoffs.

      You already see a pattern like this: this is what guys like Fraser, Dowell, Mayers, even Bollig do. (Note to Q- BENCH THEM COME THE PLAYOFFS.)

      In the playoffs, the Sneaky Dave’s of this world come out of the woodwork. It ain’t fair, but that’s why they make half of what Toews and Kane make.

      • laaarmer

        In the past I have made the argument that Dave Bolland is a myth, which he is. However, if you study history, most myths have some basis in actual events. It is true that Bolland got the best of the Sedin. It is also true that he scored some goals. Was he as good as the myth? I think the Sex Pistols would agree that he and they were not. He was once a ferocious penalty killer and shut down center. He is now, or was this season, asked to do something he has never been able to do in the NHL and that was center a top 6 line on a team. he didn;t do too well, and as you said, he was demoted. If he is indeed reduced to 4th line duty, Craig Adams did this for $675,000 last season for Pit and played in all 48 games. The question is, is Dave Bolland capable of playing 3rd line and occasional top 6 minutes game in and game out or is he a 4th line player? In other words, is he mythological or is he Dave Bolland?
        Personally, I keep him, but realistically, he is not worth it.

        • cliffkoroll

          As far as the myth, I just looked at a sample size of 6 ‘core’ guys that have been around since the 2009 playoffs (Sharp, Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook Bolland), comparing career ‘normalized’ (per 82-games) numbers.

          In terms of goals, Seabrook’s playoff numbers are 32% better, Bolland 20%, Kane 17%, Sharp 13%, Keith 11%. Toews scores 35% LESS during the playoffs.

          Now, we all agree that the Seabrook numbers tell us something: he looks to score during the playoffs a lot more, and does.

          What about assists? Here, Bolland is 31% up compared to regular season, Toews is 17% up, Keith 15% up, Kane 8% down, Sharp 9% down, Seabrook 24% down.

          Overall points? Bolland 27% up, Keith 14% up, Kane 1% up, Seabrook even, Sharp 5% down, Toews 6% down.

          Finally, +/-. In the playoffs, you play against better opponents, so nobody racks up gaudy regular season +/- type numbers, Right? All six guys are in healthy + territory during the regular season.

          Kane is a minus player in the playoffs (-4 career). The other are all + post-season players. Toews is 67% lower during the playoffs, Sharp is 36% lower, Seabrook is 25% lower, Keith is 12% lower.

          Dave Fucking Bolland’s normalized playoff +/- is 35% HIGHER than regular season. Off da map.

          • laaarmer

            I will not disagree that he plays better in the playoffs and I did say that I would keep him.

            The regular season is the marathon that you have to run to get to the 800M final. If you fall too far behind in the marathon, you cannot enter the 800M. The question still is, will Dave help you in the marathon? I like Dave. He does things that are funny on the ice and given us one of our greatest Hawk memories. He ain’t worth his salary in terms of what he does during the marathon.

            BUT

            Are the Hawks a normal NHL situation? Have they changed the way teams will be put together?

          • cliffkoroll

            I dunno. I’ve let go. Even I see the numbers don’t add up. And Stan’s strategy of organic replacement looks to be working.

            But, with two Cups in hand, future success will be more defined by playoff success than anything else. I can’t help but think Dave will be missed. Hard-to-replace skill set.

          • laaarmer

            I love Bolland and if his last play was scoring that goal, What a way to go out!
            His facial expression while holding the cup was may tell more than he is a nutjob. He may be smarter and knew what just happened – that he played his last game with his buddies.

          • Why

            I’m not sure I buy this line of reasoning. Blackhawks are probably a playoff team next year, even if Bolland was paid 3.3 to sit in Ontario for the entirety of the regular season. And the difference between the Blackhawks and the Canucks is how players have performed in the playoffs.

            I’m not not saying you have to keep Bolland, I’m just saying this isn’t the reason you let him go.

          • laaarmer

            What line of reasoning?
            That Bolland is paid too much for what he does or that he doesn’t help in the regular season?
            Your premise that the Hawks are a forgone conclusion to make the plaoffs next year is a bit early.

            1. Crawford has to play similar to this season.

            2. Few injuries
            3. a guy to play Bollands spot emerges from the chaos.
            4. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hjammer, and/or Crawford do not miss large stretches of games.

            It all hinges on a lot of things.

          • Why

            It’s not a foregone conclusion but, like I said, they are “probably a playoff team”. They could whiff on the Bolland replacement or lose any one of those guys and would still have a better roster than most of the teams in the West. I don’t expect Crawford to regress, but, if he does, this team should still have the fire power offensively to get into the playoffs.

            There’s always a lot of things that need to go right and I’m not saying I’ve got a perfect formula for predicting playoff success but playoff success is more important to this team than regular season success, same as every team that plays North American sports.

          • cliffkoroll

            If you’re making book on the odds of the Hawks reaching the playoffs next year, I want in.

          • 334Rules

            I don’t think #3 is a requirement to make the playoffs, unless you mean “a guy to win 40% of his draws and drag down the line he’s on.” Sarcasm aside, there’s an argument to be made that Bolland (or a player like him) is important in the playoffs, but his regular season value – in terms of getting you into the playoffs – is not quite so high. And I’m not entirely sure that Shaw doesn’t eventually learn to be a bit more sneaky/disciplined.

          • justforkicks

            its not about being sneaky and disciplined imo, its about usage. Is shaw or kruger ready to play top lines? I don’t think so. But you ship out bolly and that means Toews does. So are you ready for Toews production to be down? and keep in mind that it has come out that bolland played through wrist and groin injury, which i’d imagine played a large part in why he struggled

          • Waylon

            The think about Bolland is that he’s been getting hurt in the early parts of the past four seasons, and he seems to be getting progressively worse. Hate to see him go, but it must bear on the club’s decision on him for next season.

          • Why

            27. Hurt in this years playoffs (same as everybody). Made three of the 10 most important plays of the year. Proven big game player.

            I understand that Leddy has fantastic potential and I trust Bowman to make the right decison. If Bolland goes, he goes. I won’t be happy but I’ll accept it. I’m just a little surprised that people would rather keep Leddy than Bolland.

          • cliffkoroll

            slow clap.

          • Preacher

            The playoffs are a different beast altogether, with the “top” scorers getting extra attention and the bottom guys being allowed more freedom to score. Combine that with the fact that since a guy like Kane is scoring at such a high rate in the regular season it’s almost certain he will come down in the small-sample size, much more defensively focused, playoffs. Playoff stats are a bit deceptive that way.

          • cliffkoroll

            But but but…you know who Bolland was playing against in most of those playoff games, right?

            And playoff teams generally have better bottom-6 players and defensemen anyway.

            All five of the other Hawks are substantially worse in +/- in the playoffs. I’m willing to bet this is the case for almost all NHLers, and Dave’s numbers in the other direction are, I suspect, serious outliers.

        • cliffkoroll

          And you and McClure can continue your deliberately obtuse view that Bolland was a 4th-liner during the last series, bur Neo gonna come around and smack your peepee.

          • laaarmer

            He was a hybrid then? a3/4rdth liner?

          • laaarmer

            and you can continue to use words that nobody but you use anymore to argue your views and opinions. Count me in as one who likes to read your comments, but think you are the obtuse one.

          • cliffkoroll

            Sorry, that was a Shawshank reference that zipped right over your head.

            I retract the word ‘deliberately’.

          • laaarmer

            I have seen Shawshank so many times I don’t even pay attention anymore, oh, look! It’s on some channel right now. I hope somebody buys it like they did that Jimmy Stewart Christmas movie and only allow it to be played once a year.

          • neo1978

            yes, once Bolland was paired with Shaw and Bickell or Kruger and Frolik, that was the Hawks third line.

            The issue with Bolland has more to do with the total transformation of Q than anything Bolland did or didn’t do, imo. Bolland is a heavy lifter defensive player. He played in the past almost exclusively against other teams top lines.

            Most teams split their third line evenly between a top line and the opponents third. Hawks this season played their third line almost exclusively against the other teams bottom two lines. Which of those strategies they use in the future is going to determine what type of center they need on that line.

            Personally imo, the Hawks are better when the third line is playing one of the higher lines letting the Patricks play a more offensive game. Which is why Q’s use of Bolland was very strange throughout the year and even in the playoffs.

          • Why

            Yeah, but the word on Sharp, Handzus and Hossa is that all three were banged up, even by playoff hockey standards. It seems less strange now that we’re getting more information.

          • neo1978

            Which makes it more strange. Why play that line as your number two defensive line when you could play Bolland-Frolik-Kruger at least as a number two defensive line?

          • Why

            Bunch of reasons. You figure Sharp-Handzus-Hossa is relatively solid defensively and you want to give them some ice time. Normally, their advantage against that type of line would be speed. That kind of went off the table and now you would have bangers vs guys who would have trouble getting away from them.

            Against Boston, it’s a little different. Krecji and co. were flat out killing people. Make them chase the game for a while against your top guys. Boston’s third line is composed of burners and your Mash Unit line might not be able to keep up. If you want to play them significant minutes because of their scoring punch, that leaves Bergeron, Marchand and Jagr.

          • justforkicks

            Bolland wasn’t healthy either by the way:

            BrianHedger
            Bolland won’t need any surgeries this summer: “I was playing through injuries, groin and wrist, but that’s the playoffs.” #Blackhawks

          • Why

            Fair enough. I hope nothing I wrote made it sound like I was doubting Bolland’s toughness.

        • Z-man19

          I concur laaarms, well said

          • cliffkoroll

            you’re dead to me.

            Z-man19? I HAVE NO Z-MAN19!

          • Z-man19

            don’t be soar cliff, I still like your stories

          • cliffkoroll

            Oh I’m sorry. Did somebody make a comment? Cuz I didn’t hear anything.

          • Z-man19

            PUT YOUR READING GLASSES ON

        • justforkicks

          You can call the shaw line the 3rd line but he played the lowest QoC.

        • 334Rules

          I would keep him at the going rate for a 3rd line C, which is more than a wee bit below $3.375 Mildo. And I loves me some Rat as much as anyone. But there’s no place for love in a salary-cap world.

    • zacked

      I agree with this, especially the last part. It’s actually too bad that he’s not a UFA this season, because I would absolutely take him back on a “make good” 1 year deal. I think his effectiveness has been significantly reduced by injuries, so you give him a cheap one-year deal to see if there’s any bounce back.

      Since that’s not an option, at worst case it’s possible they could move him and retain some of the salary, which is thankfully an option now.

  • High and Wide

    Not that the triumvirate isn’t permitted internal disagreements but I recall some “imbecilic speculation” rather close to home: http://thecommittedindian.com/the-hossa-ultimatum/

    • neo1978

      By the end of the 2014 season, the Hawks will owe 13M in recapture costs for Hossa. If he plays two more seasons after that the Hawks will owe 18M. It is NOT imbecilic speculation that the Hawks might want to avoid that kind of a salary cap penalty.

      And no you aren’t going to easily be able to use LTIR to get around the recapture penalties.

      • Z-man19

        We shall see, Philly has to do something with Pronger as some point, right?

      • Bullitt315

        They can still use a regular buyout on him which would be 4.6m cap hit. I also believe the recapture penalties are capped.

        • Why

          Yearly. As I understand it, his cap hit would actually be higher if you bought him out than it would be under the Cap Recapture Penalties.

      • mazer_rackham

        I don’t get where these super-high penalty numbers are coming from. According to Capgeek, which is AFAIK the oracle on such things, the maximum penalty would be 4.75M per year

        http://www.capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/?contract_id=1370&player_id=291&recapture_submit=set&retirement_year=2020&trade=0&acquiring_team=6&in_season_trade=-1&in_season_traded_year=2012&season_percentage=1&off_season_traded_year=2013

        • neo1978
          • mazer_rackham

            A 4M penalty may have killed 2010/11, but I would say it was worth the cup.

            I guess I’d rather live in the window of opportunity now, where it feels like we have a legitimate shot for the next 3 years rather than let a key piece go for the sake of a complete unknown 5-8 years down the road. Sounds like Bowman would too.

          • neo1978

            I would say it was worth it too. But the Hawks weren’t given any slack that season for doing it. And if the Hawks don’t buy out Hossa next season, the Hawks won’t be given any slack those 5 seasons they are paying the penalty for that decision, either.

          • lizmcneill

            Buying out Hossa would be worse than waiting for the recapture penalty:

            http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=291&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=27

          • Why

            Yeah, I think neo was looking at a compliance buy-out, which is off the table now.

            As for regular buy-outs, all of those front loaded deals that gradually decrease are going to work the same and the buy out cap hit is going to be more severe than the retirement (cap recapture) penalty, especially in later years. Here’s capgeek’s explanation of how buyouts effect the cap:

            http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-buyouts-work

            Basically, the formula for anybody that would get bought out looks like this (using the numbers for each year):

            Cap Hit After Buyout = Cap Hit with no buyout – 2/3 of Actual Salary

            There’s basically two differences between cap recapture and buy-out for cap purposes. The 2nd one probably matters more for Hossa:

            1. The cap recapture is averaged over remaining years while buy-out is a year to year formula. Doesn’t make much of a difference for Hossa, unless he retires or defects before he makes 4M a season because he has a couple of years at 1M.

            2. The cap recapture penalty is essentially the same formula, except it basically subtracts all of the salary you were scheduled to make. 1 is always greater than 2/3. Subtracting more from a cap hit is good if you want to be able to spend more money.

            This isn’t even getting into the fact that the cap recapture penalty doesn’t require any more actual money to change hands. Basically, all I’m saying is that if your two options are cap recapture penalty or ordinary buy out, you take the penalty every time.

            Unless I’m missing something.

          • Why

            That window appears to be closed now, neo Two compliance buy-outs announced today. Max 2 allowed by the CBA (see p. 288) Hopefully LTIR option remains open.

          • neo1978

            The team has NOT as of yet used either compliance buyout. They have
            just stated their intentions. They can still change their mind while
            the two players go through waivers.

          • Why

            I mean if you want to get technical that makes us both right. I’d say it’s pretty unlikely that they announce buy-outs and don’t follow through.

          • Accipiter

            But he used capital letters to get his point across,

            letting you know which word to focus on.

          • Why

            NOT sure if serious.

        • Why

          Neither of you are wrong. He’s talking total penalties, you’re talking yearly penalties.

    • Daze55

      I think the conversation urging a Hossa buyout would be much more present if we hadn’t just won the cup. The idea of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is thoroughly in play.

      • neo1978

        Also, the “I don’t care about the future, I want to win now” crowd is in full force. Of course that will change when the future becomes now…

        • amontesawesome

          Well, I do think there might be something to this.

          Given the fact that Toews and Kane are both up 2015 and due for huge raises, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say the org’s goal should be to win as many Stanley Cups as possible between now and the day you potentially lose one (or both) of them.

          • http://www.thecommittedindian.com/ PowrFwd37

            I don’t know that I can agree that both Toews and Kane are “due for huge raises.”

            Certainly, they are the top players on the roster, but a few things to consider:

            a) They are hockey players, not players of other sports. The top guys make good money, but hockey players are not going to be able to continue to make north of 7 mildo under the new CBA.

            b) They are Hawks. Two-time, cup-winning Hawks (maybe more, by the time their contracts come up – I certainly hope so). They’ve made their money already. There won’t be any reason for them to “seek greener pastures” or greener paychecks elsewhere.

            c) They both know that staying here together is (presumably) the best thing for their careers. I don’t believe that they’ll really care to test the waters of FA for a few hundred thousand more per year, as opposed to maintaining this “thing they’ve got going in Chicago.” That “thing” is a pretty good one, by all accounts.

            I don’t know that we need to worry (realistically, I mean, anything IS possible I suppose) about them going anywhere, ever.

          • Accipiter

            I’m guessing that 19 and 88 sign identical or similar contracts when they re-sign with the Hawks. The contracts will most likely be ones that don’t put the team in a position where they can’t sign/keep other key players.

          • http://www.thecommittedindian.com/ PowrFwd37

            THANK YOU.

            They are NHLers, but see QB, NFL (Good ones). Guys like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc… (I may be wrong about some of them, but) I routinely hear stories about highly paid NFL QBs restructuring their deals to allow the team to get more help around them.

            While the NHL’s CBA will not allow restructuring, I like to think that Hockey guys are more realistic and grounded (in general) than NFL guys, and therefore they realize that if all of the paychecks are belong to me, then their team will suffer as a result.

          • cliffkoroll

            This is exactly the kind of universe in which I would like to live.

          • Waylon

            You look at what Brady has done with the Pats – I don’t like that team at all, but he has signed for less in order keep other players on the team.

        • cliffkoroll

          there’s a lot of talk about the future becoming now, but I’ve yet to see it happen.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            I heard it was going to happen tomorrow.

        • mazer_rackham

          As is the “can someone close the window of opportunity, it is drafty in here” crowd

    • steeg of their own

      Recapture penalties will be MURDER if Hossa retires before the end of that contract. This is the problem. Hossa’s great value for money now, and if the contract wasn’t an anvil at the end of it no one would be discussing buying him out, because he’s a great player and everyone likes him. As long as he actually plays out the contract, everyone’s golden. But the chance (and indeed likelihood) that he won’t is the dice that the Hawks have chosen to roll.

      • Kevin

        “Because he’s a great player and everyone likes him.”

        Everyone here likes him, obviously … but I don’t get that same exact sentiment on the streets or in the UC.

        This year was a trying year for #81. He only scored 17 goals and had a wobbly 14 assists. What was worse is that as the playoffs deepened, Hossa really disappeared. I can’t believe all of this talk about a washed up scrub.

        I look at Hossa as a “Big Mistake.” Something you want to ignore and not talk about because in doing so, one gets depressed.

        Please, let’s stop talking about this guy. Who cares now.

        • Accipiter

          “I look at Hossa as a “Big Mistake.” Something you want to ignore and not talk about because in doing so, one gets depressed”

          I share the same sentiment about Kevin.

          • Kevin

            Thanks for your support.

          • Paul the Fossil

            That was actually more support than you deserve.

        • laaarmer

          I know I’m not supposed to engage, but what is your problem with Hossa? Are you Martin Havlat? Did he steal something from you?

          • Kevin

            I don’t have any problems with him except his productivity and the fact he continues to bring nothing to the table for us. He’s getting worse, too.

            Lets stop talking about him. I’m actually getting sick and tired of writing about him.

          • laaarmer

            see above. way above. regarding his productivity.

          • Kevin

            I wish I liked Hossa because he does come across as likable. I’m searching on why i don’t like him because I wish I didn’t like him.

          • laaarmer

            Who gives a fuck if you or I like him. He might be a complete douche, like K–e, or he might be dumb as a box of rocks, like y-u. You can not like him and none of us will care. I think Roenick and Burish are utterly worthless, but I don’t say Roenick didn’t produce for the Hawks, because that would make me a dumb shit.

          • mad-hatter

            We’re getting sick and tired of you writing about him too.

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          When your opinion doesn’t even warrant a time mug… well you’ve hit a new low.

    • Kevin

      The new frontier of winning Stanley Cups in the future is going to be drafting very well and developing home grown talent.

      With the salary cap being at a suffocating level and with top stars demanding top dollar it’s impossible to build through free agency.

      What’s worse is that we can’t keep free agents now (Kane and Toews in ’15 may be gone).

      The Hawks did a great job in drafting Saad and Shaw late (they both turned out to be stars) and developing Bickell. We have to continue to keep doing this on a constant basis. I would rather be known as being this machine at drafting, developing, and nurturing home grown talent than to be a spending machine.

      All of this crap about who we can keep and not keep is rubbish for now. Don’t forget this team was built on the draft, some key trades, and a Hossa.

  • Paul the Fossil

    It seems very unlikely that Bolland could yield as much as a 2nd rounder right now, given his cap hit with the cap coming down and so many teams having to dump salary to get under it. If Stan finds such an offer he should jump on it.

    • zacked

      Uncle Dale’s got cap room!

    • Why

      Disagree mightily on that one. A 2nd rounder for Bolland is pretty close to a fire sale.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    Bickel: A breakout playoffs or a Bigg Buff style high water mark? That’s the question Stan has to answer before he figures out what to do in the way of an offer sheet.

    • Oregon_hawk

      No one who doesn’t continue to work is going to be effective.

      Buff receding from his high water mark might be due to not giving a shit in Winnipeg.

      • Jim A

        Or to his insistance on being a defenseman.

      • Waylon

        I’m not sure Buff gave much of a shit here – the organization was always concerned with his weight and propensity to never work out, either in the off – season or during. I watched a Peg’s game a few months ago and the guy could barely go down the ice more than two times a shift. Even their homer commentators talked about it.

    • zacked

      Flukey good scoring run. The good thing about Bickell, though, is he is a solid player even without the goals. Strong possession skills, can play defense, provides a dimension the hawks otherwise don’t have much of, and has that deceptive wrister. He was wildly, wildly underpaid on his last deal.

    • Andrew Heitman

      Bicks showed he can play anywhere in the lineup. He got more looks, finished big goals on the first line and could grind and support a defensive 3rd line. The points don’t matter after that level of versatility.

  • VanDorp’sMullet

    The last purge after the Stanley Cup caused me more dread and depression than anything. It sucked watching a lot of my favorite players go (Ladd in particular) even if it was time (Madden).

    This time around (and even though it’s not the same level of “purge” as before), I have more a sense of excitement and that it is a refreshing of the roster. Gone are the dead weights to the cap of Olesz and Montador. Perhaps also to be gone is Bolland who, I’m afraid, is a shadow of the player he once was. Rosival is probably gone too (sad face) as well as Stalberg (meh… love the speed, not much of a finisher or defensive presence) and maybe Bickell (another sad face).

    BUT, it should be fun to see some of the prospects compete for the opened spots and maybe to see a Cullen or someone even more exciting don the Indian head. It really feels like the players we let go are mostly because we WANT to let them go and not because we NEED to (Bickell and Rosival are the exceptions). Should be an interesting off-season and training camp.

    • Why

      We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether any team should want to let Bolland go. If it’s the best you can do in the situation and you have a higher priorities, fine, it happens. Bolland (still and always slightly younger than Bickell) going somewhere else would be a cap related move.

      • VanDorp’sMullet

        I should have been a little more careful in delineating need from want in my post. I think Bolland would be a cap casualty too and in a perfect world, I’d like to keep him to see if he regains some o’ that magic Ratness that seemed to be coming back to him in the Bruins series. BUT, given the production we got out of him this year and, to a certain extent last year, he is someone that can be replaced with another defensive-minded center. Maybe I’ll curse those words next season as Bolland is scoring .5 points a game somewhere, playing lock-down d, and agitating to no end, but my guess is that all those back injuries, etc. have taken their toll on him. It’s totally sad, but he just isn’t worth his current contract, IMHO.

        • Why

          Fair enough. And I’m engaging in the same type of baseless speculation everybody should probably ignore. I’m still wondering whether the Hawks are simply trying to figure out what the market for Bolland is. I’m not saying they don’t move him, but the general consensus seems to be that you can’t keep Bickell, Leddy and Bolland. Leddy’s going to fetch either a 2nd rounder or 1st and 3rd through RFA rules. You get nothing if you lose Bickell. The only prudent move from the organization is to check what you get for Bolland.

          And that’s before you get into the medical information and contract expectations of the players, both of which the team has much better information (some) about than I do (virtually none).

          • ballyb11

            And what’s the consensus on what, if anything he would bring in return?

          • Why

            Sorry, I’m not understanding what you’re asking. I probably don’t have enough information to answer it, though.

          • 2883

            Bolland’s return? Prepare to be underwhelmed… I’d be surprised if they got a 2nd rounder… He just hasn’t had a good year.

          • neo1978

            Bolland has way more respect around the league than he does in his own fan base, imo.

          • 2883

            He’s well respected but how much better is he on an expiring contract than like Handzus? (who only got a 4th)

          • Why

            Handzus is 36 and was traded at the deadline. Buyers at that point are relatively limited because only teams that consider themselves cup contenders are going to consider making that trade.

          • neo1978

            I still don’t see Bolland being traded, unless it is for another center. Hawks are still limited in their options at center for the next couple of seasons. Kruger and Shaw still look better to me as wingers.

          • Why

            I don’t think the rumours mean that Bolland is definitely gone. Hell, if you were trying to sign Bolland to an extension, the right move might still be finding out what is value is in the trade market and floating rumours to get some negotiating leverage. And you’re dead right on the centre situation. Jackattack’s projected roster below provides more evidence of that point.

            It still leaves the defending Stanley Cup Championswith a problem. Can they find a way to keep Leddy, Bickell and Bolland though? If not who goes? I’m not privy to any of the insider information the team has, but on my limited understanding of it I’d have a hard time not dropping Leddy. He has more value to a team that needs him in a 1st or 2nd pairing role.

          • zacked

            Leddy’s value is not all, or even most, in the now. He’s 21. He has the potential to be an extremely valuable player.

          • Why

            No doubt. I’m not suggesting Leddy isn’t a valuable asset. But if you’re a Stanley Cup contender, do you drop Bickell or Bolland right now because of Leddy’s potential?

          • neo1978

            Leddy and Bickell face the ultimate free agent question, do you want to be a top half player on a non-playoff team or a lower player on a contender? Don’t think getting rid of Bolland will matter all that much.

          • Why

            Hope you’re right. 7 million in cap room (including Bolland on the team). Leddy and Bickell to be resigned. Kruger’s another guy you’d like to keep in a perfect world. You’re also going to need a back-up goalie and probably at least one more defencemen. That looks a daunting task to me but I might just be overvaluing a bunch of recent Stanley Cup winners.

          • Accipiter

            Hawks got Raanta for a back-up goalie, no ?

          • Why

            Maybe, but if you include Raanta the situation gets even more dicey.

            Raanta isn’t included in the 7 million (don’t know if he has a one or two way contract). To be fair, cap room is actually around 7.8 (if capgeek can be trusted). If you include Ranta and his projected 1.4 million dollar cap hit, that leaves you about 6.4 million.

            Leddy, Bickell, Kruger and at least one, maybe two defenceman. Even if you assume Kruger goes, I think you’re in tough to keep Leddy and Bickell both and still make it under the cap without moving someone else. You probably only have 4-5 million to spend on them and 5 is assuming you only want to carry 6 regular defenceman. And you want to pay that 6th defenceman around 1 million. And you don’t want to leave much room for guys on two ways to play their way into the show.

            Looks daunting.

      • Jim

        Bolland has an extra gear for the playoffs. Too bad he can’t step it up a notch in the regular season, but he is either hurt or disinterested. Too bad they couldn’t keep him in reserve until the last month, then bring him on for the post season. But I agree, Bolland and his salary must, sadly, depart.

        • neo1978

          Or he plays primarily against top end talent. Something Toews had to do instead of Bolland when Bolland got hurt. You know that Toews guy that dropped off the map production wise once he took over Bolland’s role…

        • Kevin

          Charlie Finley once said that his philosophy in building the A’s was to find gamers who could withstand the pressure in the playoffs.

          He didn’t want flashy players who put up eyepopping stats in the regular season, but tough warriors in the big games.

          This epitomizes who Dave Bolland is as a player. He comes to play on the biggest of stages. Am i being obtuse?

          • laaarmer

            Like Reggie Jackson, Rollie Fingers, Vida Blue, and Catfish Hunter? Yeah, they all sucked until the playoffs.

            You know George Halas once said something quote worthy, but he was full of shit too.

          • Kevin

            Hahaha. Yeah, it didn’t hurt to have 3 HOF’s on your roster.

            What’s gotten into you Larms? You used to be very quiet on this thread until today.

          • laaarmer

            That’s because you just got here.

            And since you did just get here. Try to be less of a douchebag while your here.

            Do you know mjthor?

  • BigCSouthside

    What do you all think Bicks gets offered?

    If you were GM, would you not try too hard to get Bicks and maybe pursue Lacavlier?

    • zacked

      I don’t think it’s worthwhile to dream about Lecavlier. They can’t afford him without gutting the team, and more importantly, they have too many guys who deserve the shot. Pirri’s my 2C until he proves otherwise.

      • Gozer the Traveler

        My impossible dream is Stephen Weiss. Coming off of surgery, played for FLA his whole career…his open market price may have decreased, and maybe he can be talked into taking a discount playing for a winner.

        • detroit must die

          I have also thought about how nice Weiss would look in the Indianhead

    • Gozer the Traveler

      Depends on what you need. Lots of GMs love the big body power forward archetype. Whoever is in on the David Clarkson Sweepstakes will probably also bid on Bickell.

    • 2883

      2.5 to 3.5 per year.

      • Gozer the Traveler

        If a team desperate to make a splash gets into a bidding war I could see him going for as much as 4, which would be utterly ridiculous. But word is that EDM is trying to score some big body forwards to go along with their high level skill guys. If they can’t get Clarkson or Horton, who knows what they’ll offer to pick up a guy who was the big body forward on the top line of a Stanley Cup winning team…

      • 334Rules

        If he’ll stay for $3M (meaning he’s probably turning down higher offers elsewhere), I say keep him. Remember, a lot of teams are working with the same math as the Hawks, so the spec that big money might be floating around for UFAs may not be as valid as anticipated.

  • Paul the Fossil
    • cliffkoroll

      Those guys are so money!

      July 24: Jonathan Bernier career-ending knee injury scheduled.

      • Paul the Fossil

        I especially liked both of the Van references (regarding Luongo and then Tortorella).

  • Andrew Heitman

    Vinny is going to Montreal (his hometown) if the Habs can mash the money together.

  • Joe Banks

    Apparently, someone has been rumoring that HOSSA will be bought out?
    “a meatball Portillo’s fart of an idea”. – Well said.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Someone must be stupid, then.

  • laaarmer

    Who knew this? (wiki)

    In October 2012, during the 2012–13 NHL lockout,
    Oduya traveled to Bangkok, Thailand, to play for the local team the
    Flying Farangs, in the 18th Annual “Land of Smiles” Hockey tournament.
    He carried his team to the championship against Abu-Dhabi, and helped
    bring home Bangkok’s first title in tournament history.

    Hobo Johnny got two championships this year.

    • FakeASeizure

      I knew he played in Thailand but never looked into the details. That’s some bizarre shit.

      • cza

        It’s a good story, especially the part where his new team wasn’t sure if they were getting punked. Just in case his arrival was real, they sent someone to the airport to pick him up. Don’t remember if it was the SI story or something else, but it also said he only had three teammates capable of handling his passes.

    • Accipiter

      SI had a story about it earlier in the year (him going to Thailand).

    • bizarrohairhelmet

      I read about it. Hard to believe an NHL caliber blue-liner can add that much value to a team.

      • steeg of their own

        I sort of like the idea of Oduya as the Bobby Orr of Thailand.

        • zacked

          Hjalmarsson did the same thing in Italy, leading all d-men in PPG by a lot. Maybe it’s the key to fixing impatient d-men? Who knew.

          • Kevin

            So, is Hammer the Phil Epsosito of Italy? Oduya is the Bobby Orr of Thailand. Kane is the Wayne Gretky of Switzerland.

        • 10thMountainFire

          Kane is the Denis Savard of Switzerland.

          • Accipiter

            That was Seguin.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Seguin is the Phil Kessel of Boston.

          • Accipiter

            No, that’s Dougie Hamilton.

          • 10thMountainFire

            You’re not supposed to put your feet on the couch.

      • Kevin

        The level of competition can’t be that good. I could see a bunch of Thai’s about 5′ 3″ and skinny as a rail playing. I could also see myself lacing them up and dominating them, too.

        I can’t believe I’m saying this because I’m way past my prime.

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          Really? Cut yourself some slack. It’s no more ludicrous than 99% of the things you’ve said elsewhere.

    • Kevin

      I didn’t know they played hockey in Thailand. I thought they played extreme sports like seducing King Cobras.

    • VerStig

      He is also the prime suspect for the lost championship trophy!

  • jackattack

    I posted this in the morning links thread right as this post went up, sp here it is again.

    Here’s what I see as Stan’s easel starting today, and this should serve as a good starting point for any capgeekers:

    CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
    My Custom Lineup
    FORWARDS
    Brandon Saad ($0.894m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
    Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Andrew Shaw ($0.578m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
    Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Michael Frolik ($2.333m)
    DEFENSEMEN
    Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
    Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Johnny Oduya ($3.383m)
    Sheldon Brookbank ($1.250m)
    GOALTENDERS
    Corey Crawford ($2.667m)
    Antti Raanta ($1.400m)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
    SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,943,462; BONUSES: $557,500
    CAP SPACE (15-man roster): $12,914,038

    • detroit must die

      Good thing the Blackhawks roster is already in decent shape, since this year’s free agent market is a big bag of suck.

      2014, however…

      http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2014&team_id=-1&position_id=-1&fa_type_id=2

      • Preacher

        Ooo, Brodeur’s available! Then we can get rid of that crappy-glove hand Crawford slacker. Maybe THEN we can win a Cup!!!

        • detroit must die

          I was thinking more along the lines of Joe “Hey, wanna ditch San Jose and come win a championship” Pavelski.

          and seriously, everyone knows Ryan Miller is the missing puzzle piece here in Chicago, geez.

          • 2883

            Joe would look good in an Indianhead.

          • DesertHawk

            Almost as good as he did in 2010… wait no that was Versteeg.

          • laaarmer

            I remember Pavelsteeg well

  • jackattack

    And here’s my first offseason attempt at a roster that’s both realistic and desirable (at least for me).

    CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
    My Custom Lineup
    FORWARDS
    Brandon Saad ($0.894m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
    Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Drew Leblanc ($0.900m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
    Bryan Bickell ($3.250m) / Andrew Shaw ($0.578m) / Jimmy Hayes ($0.875m)
    Marcus Kruger ($1.150m) / Boyd Gordon ($1.325m) / Michael Frolik ($2.333m)
    Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Ben Smith ($0.563m)
    DEFENSEMEN
    Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
    Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Johnny Oduya ($3.383m)
    Nick Leddy ($2.100m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($1.250m)
    Michal Rozsival ($2.150m) /
    GOALTENDERS
    Corey Crawford ($2.667m)
    Antti Raanta ($1.400m)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
    SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,255,962; BONUSES: $745,000
    CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $789,038

    • Gozer the Traveler

      Couple observations with this one:

      You’re putting an awful lot of stock into the Hobey Baker Award

      You’re assuming that Gordon is going to be signed with no pay increase whatsoever here

      • jackattack

        I had Gordon’s hit at 1.5 mil but it must have reset it. He’d still fit in with that number.

        I’m honestly not a fan of the 2C spot going to either Leblanc or Pirri, but in the case that it happens I think Leblanc wins out. He’s a more complete package and can stay out of Kane and Sharpie’s way.

    • detroit must die

      I’d be very surprised if Drew LeBlanc didn’t start next season in Rock Vegas

      • jackattack

        It’s a definite possibility, but if the 2C position becomes a battle between prospects, it’s a very possible situation that The White starts up with the big club.

        • detroit must die

          It would seem he has a lot of competition. Since Pirri fits nowhere else but 2C, Danault seems to figure into the competition in camp. And what happened to Mark McNeil? Seem’s like he fell off the face of the earth.

          • zacked

            I think Danault and McNeil are still good prospects, but they were done a disservice by the CHL-NHL agreement which forced them to stay in juniors.

            Pirri, to me, is clearly the most ready of the 4 (include LeBlanc). He had a more impressive season in a more difficult league while being a year younger. And besides pure performance, he deserves the spot because he’s put in the time and his contract is up first.

      • Waylon

        Probably, but you’d have to think he wouldn’t have signed with the Hawks if he wasn’t promised a real opportunity to win a spot with the big club.

    • 2883

      Leddy will get more than 2.1 MM per year. Rozsival probably doesn’t re-sign here… but that’s good that we have the cap to do it. other than that… It’s reasonable

      • Why

        He’s not doing that. Kruger’s on the 4th.

        • 2883

          I edited that… Kruger doens’t fit well on the wing but yeah.. getting Leddy for 2.1 would be lucky.. really lucky

          • Why

            Yeah. The truth is all of our guesses are going to be well off for the time being. Good on the guy for posting it, though.

          • jackattack

            It’s my thing. I was sort of the resident CapGeek guy during the SCH days, so I’ve been carrying on that tradition.

          • 2883

            I had done a similar roster as well and created a few empty roster spots earlier..

          • Why

            Expect a lot of second guessing from me but thanks for keeping the conversation going.

          • jackattack

            Kruger was 37% at the dot in the playoffs, and was way more dynamic on the wing at even strength. If we end up keeping Bolland, I think he stay between Kruger and Frolik anyway.

      • jackattack

        If Leddy wants more than 2.1, Stan will probably deal him. There is no way in hell he makes even near as much as Subban did.

        • 2883

          Del Zotto got 2.55, how does Leddy compare to Del Zotto before last year? I’d say they’re near identical carbon copies. Subban got 2.875.

          • jackattack

            Skill and potential-wise, he’s extremely similar to MDZ, but the difference is that Del Zotto is a top 4 guy for the Rangers who they’ve really leaned on since he became a regular. Leds is not a top 4 defenseman on the Hawks, he is not leaned upon, and there’s still a good deal of uncertainty about what kind of player he’ll end up being (strictly offensive dman, or can he become a true 2 way type who can carry his partner?). All these things spell a smaller number to me.

          • 2883

            To be honest, those same things were exaclty the knocks on MDZ prior to this season. He plays on a team that needs him a bit more… that’s not going to affect anyone’s value IMO. I don’t think it’s far off, but if we get him for 2.1 consider it a bargain. Something just shy of MDZ is probably what I expect him to get.

          • jackattack

            I would not be shocked in the slightest if that’s what it ends up being, but I’m skeptical whether Stan would pay that much. For what it’s worth, I want Leds to be locked up for awhile, and if its a long term deal they end up inking, the number will definitely be higher.

            Thoughts on who could pair with #8 that isn’t Bookbank, Rozsival or a prospect?

          • 2883

            So I can’t use Clendening whom he clicked with on the lockout? Damn… Ok… well I assume they’ll use Brookbank or Clendening on that bottom pair and not go out and sign another 6th dman but if they do..

            It’d have to be someone who would sign for < 1.5 mil.

            Here are a couple names:
            Steve Eminger (played for the NYR last year)
            Ryan O' Byrne (played for Col/Tor last year)

          • jackattack

            I didn’t realize he played with Clendening. They deem to similar to me, especially for a bottom pairing, but if they had success in The Rock then it’s worth trying. Although I think Stanton fits the bill better.

          • Waylon

            I’ve always thought of him as a Doug Wilson type player, albeit a better skater.

    • Joe Banks

      Tis the season to play… Money-Puck

  • detroit must die

    Vinny Lecavalier on a short term affordable deal, discounted for a chance to contend for the chalice….. Shut up. A man can dream.

    • Z-man19

      said he’s looking for a long term deal

      • detroit must die

        Yeah, I know, i saw.

        In two years he’ll be a perfect fit for the Flyers.

        • Z-man19

          heh

      • mazer_rackham

        aw, that’s a shame…i was hoping he’d rent himself out for 1 year and then go back to TBL

      • Joe Banks

        Buh Bye

  • roadhog
    • 2883

      Yeah he’s been saying that all along. I think the Hawks will make an offer… we’ll see how close he is to sticking to that

      • Waylon

        one of the guy on the NHL network said that while Bickell can go for the dollars, the question becomes what kind of teammates will he be playing with, will he have a chance at another cup, etc. Surprising to hear, since so many of them think he gone.

        • 10thMountainFire

          That’s a good point. Something tells me that Bicks is more a product of his surroundings on the ice. He may realize that and figure his stats are swollen due to guys like Marvel. Maybe he stays?

        • 2883

          Right now there’s not that BIG of a market out there for UFA’s tbh. I expect issues with guys being out there. The stars are going to get theirs but stars are rarely on the FA market (It was a rare offseason with Parise and Suter both out there and in their primes.) Bickell’s market value may not be as high as his value to the Hawks or the gap may not be as big as in year’s past. Teams would have to commit 4 mil to get him or so and that signifies that he’s part of their core top 6. I don’t know if Bickell is that type of player… I hope he is, he played like he is in the playoffs but I’m not sold on a 24 game stretch or so (1/4 of a season) . I will miss him if he goes, but I don’t know that a lot of teams are lining up to throw 4 mil at him. Please let me be right :)

    • LAHawksFan

      Yeah…it sure would be nice, but I fear that the gap between what we can (and should) pay for his services and what someone else will pony up may be too great. I wouldn’t fault him if someone makes him a ridiculous offer that he can’t refuse, since this may be his only time to really cash in. But if it is close he seems like a loyal type of guy who would stay. This team has stuck with him for a long time and tried to nurture his skill…and he has a good thing going here and would be able to play with some pretty elite talent (which would help up his game).

  • goldenjet

    I would love to see Bolland back. skills to play on any line at times while anchoring the 3rd.

    Will Jimmy Hayes be able to step into Bickell’s role? Hope so.

    • 2883

      There are some parallels between Bickell 3 years ago and Jayes now, but I’d rather have Bickell, but not desperately.. We have that perennial joke… that 2C guy is really good all the Hawks blogs talk about him.

      Top 6 :
      C: Toews 2C
      LW Sharp Saad
      RW Kane Hossa

      • 2883

        Bot 6:

        C Kruger LeBlanc
        LW Morin Carcillo
        RW Frolik (Open?)

        • jackattack

          Why does everyone keep leaving Shaw out? He is our 3C for the future, and it’s not even really debatable.

          • 2883

            Yeah, you mean he’s not dead after the Cup Final? Oh…. he’s alive… well in that case… I’ll revise.

            C Shaw Kruger (Leblanc)
            LW Morin Leblanc (Kruger)
            RW Frolik Jayes or FA

          • jackattack

            Miss Myers tweeted that the right side of his face looks like one giant bee sting. So he might kinda look like a dead person.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Anyone seen Bolland?

          • Fleshrifle

            Every time I close my eyes. He’s either haunting me or scoring that goal.

          • 10thMountainFire

            So… a win either way.

          • cliffkoroll

            agree on the non-debatable part anyway.

          • Fleshrifle

            Depth at C (even 3C) is important. Shaw is an injury waiting to happen. He’s been healthy but I don’t trust his size and the way he plays the game to be healthy next year.

      • Joe Banks

        2C, or not 2C… that is the question. Whether it is nobler to continue with duct tape and bailing wire, or mortgage the future for the one we desire…

    • 10thMountainFire

      No Jimmy Hayes, please.

      Morin and Pirri. (Though neither quite fills Bollie’s role).

      I am reminded of Hack’s comment about Kruger not having enough ‘snarl’ to fill Bollie’s blood-soaked skates. I’m not so sure Bolland leaves, though. He’s an elite third line center… when he plays there. Get us a 2C and… wait. Nevermind. Forget I mentioned the 2C.

      • Why

        And, if you’re a playoff team, you can look to rent at the deadline for a fraction of the price.

        • Fleshrifle

          Handzus, decent deadline rental but it’s a risky strategy waiting for a rental. The likelihood of a flameout on a deadline rental is much higher than the upside (at best someone decent).

          • Jim A

            Handzus didn’t really work as 2C until Q flipped Kane and Hossa. Not knocking the guy, but sometimes chemistry is important.

          • Why

            You figure the risk is worse at the deadline than it is in free agency or an offseason trade? Probably slightly higher, but who would you give up on this team to get a 2C?

          • Joe Banks

            And therein lies the rub.

  • steeg of their own

    Razor is only 30 years old? Weird. I somehow thought he was older than that.

    • detroit must die

      His hips are older than that.

      • 2883

        Ha… No the factory hip that they put in him is relatively new

  • amontesawesome

    I’m prepared to be slightly upset when Viktor Stalberg signs a below market value 2 year 2.5 per year deal in San Jose.

    • 2883

      His brother is there, he’d fit in there… and 2.5 is probably more than the Hawks want to pay him… Yeah that makes sense…

    • 10thMountainFire

      I won’t be upset at all.

      Stals is not going to ever find his groove under Q, good or bad.
      He still needs to find a finishing touch for his speed. When he does, he could be better than good. He could be great. But that won’t be here.

      • roadhog

        IF he does at all.

        • amontesawesome

          I think his lack of scoring touch is a little overblown. Over the last two seasons only 4 Blackhawks have averaged at least 2 points per 60 minutes of playing time both seasons.

          Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Stalberg.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Saad hasn’t played two seasons. Kneel.

          • Waylon

            and only 20 – 20 freaking years old, ladies and gentlemen. What a damn beast the kid’s gonna be in a year or two.

  • 10thMountainFire

    Dear Dan Bernstein:

    Shut the fuck up now. You lost all your hockey-writing privileges.

    • steeg of their own

      I thought that happened a couple years ago?

    • pepe_silvia

      The Blackhawks are in the Stanley Cup Final? They are the best team in Chicago, bar none? Better talk about LeBron and the Heat, or how horrible the White Sox are. So annoying.

  • bizarrohairhelmet

    Jesus, didn’t we just defeat Smaug? Why did we have to start talking about the rumblings coming out of Morder?

  • steeg of their own

    Oh, and some guy named Vinny something is out there now too. To dream the impossibly handsome dream.

    Never going to happen, but a line with Vinny centering Stals and Sharpie would be sort of obscene.

  • jackattack

    I need to know something… Why are there still so many peeps round these parts that doubt Andrew Shaw as our 3C for the foreseeable future?

    • amontesawesome

      I think the confusion is more existential. I think it’s unclear what being the 3C on the Hawks means going forward as the 3C was, for the most part, used differently than the previous few seasons.

    • 10thMountainFire

      I think you’re wrong. That ‘doubt’ you reference is very limited and on the margins of the fan base. Stop worrying… no one doubts Shaw’s potential there.

      • jackattack

        It just seems like he gets left out in a lot of conversations regarding the future of this team. Which is so weird to me, cause of he sticks around I think there’s a great chance that he’s the next guy (years from now) to get a letter on his jersey.

        • 10thMountainFire

          Seabrook or Kane would be next but I get your point.

    • neo1978

      Three levels of third line centers:
      Those that only play a checking role against other team’s top lines.
      Those that split time evenly between top and third lines.
      Those that primarily only play against other team’s bottom lines.

      Shaw was the third type of 3C center. And still looks like he is most probably going to play wing in the future.

    • lizmcneill

      Kruger was 3C in terms of the QoC he saw, Shaw in terms of TOI. Didn’t really have a checking line because Bolly was at 2C, and he was still seeing top-line QoC (with Sharpy or Hayes, and Kane, ouch) until he got hurt and Toews started to get the top line.

      Shaw’s a classic energy line guy by temperament, with the nice advantage that he and his shinpads can actually score a few goals.

  • steeg of their own

    PD posts the eulogy/tribute to the Hawks, written by Hockey Wilderness. It’s actually not bad, considering.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/eulogy-er-tribute-remembering-2012-13-chicago-blackhawks-205546790.html#more-62612

    • Why

      What a second, Minnesota fans are complaining about how the Hawks fans act when the Hawks win? Does Minnesota win things from time to time?

    • roadhog

      Tougher/funnier criticism on these very boards daily by actual Hawk fans than anything in that eulogy. Weak-sauce from the land of 50 tetrabizillion mosquitos and two so-last-cba bloated hockey contracts- I here they are gonna roll just 3 lines next year, cap and all.

    • cliffkoroll

      Criticism as sharp and spicy as Minnesota cuisine no doubt.

    • QCBlackhawk

      “You’re not modern enough to get the Olympics or World Cup”
      The fuck? I went to a World Cup game in Chicago when I was a younger lad…

      • DJ

        Precisely. Opening game of the 94 World Cup was at 14th and the Lakefront.

    • 10thMountainFire

      A bit bitter about the Leddy, eh?

      • roadhog

        Shouldn’t they be aiming that ire at Wild managment?

      • steeg of their own

        I’d be hella bitter if I were them, so I thought it was funny to watch them praise him like that.

      • QCBlackhawk

        Sup 10th? Missed you in a lot of the gameday threads towards the end of the year. Have to bail on them?

        • 10thMountainFire

          Nah, I love you guys too much to bail!

          Had to head out to the nether regions where the net is afraid to go…

          • Accipiter

            The net is a series of tubes.

          • QCBlackhawk

            It’s not a dump truck?

    • Fleshrifle

      About as exciting to read as a Wild* game.

    • laaarmer

      That is horribly horrible.

  • yinkadoubledare

    I’m just curious to see once they figure out who’s staying which quality veterans do the “I’ll take peanuts on a one year deal to try to win a Cup with you guys” deal that guys used to sign with Detroit (Jarome Arthur Leigh Adekunle Tig Junior Elvis Iginla, come on down!)

  • Checkers

    Leddy doesn’t have any leverage here – he has no arbitration rights. You’re seeing the return of the second contract. Now if the Hawks decide to sign him to a longer term deal, then the hit will go up because they’ll be buying out his arb years, but I have my doubts that they’re looking to give him term like that.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Quick… someone tie Doug Wilson’s hands to a wall or something.

      • Fleshrifle

        Uh…I just didn’t want to visualize that.

        • 10thMountainFire

          It’s better than picturing Leddy wearing a fish on his chest…

    • 2883

      2 years 2.55 is what MDZ got 2 – 2.85 is what Subban got… It’s not unreasonable to see him somewhere in that range.

      • Checkers

        A few things:

        Subban is not comparable to Leddy, even when we take 2013 out of the picture.

        The salary cap was $70.2M in the first year of MDZ’s deal, the cap will be $64.3M in the first year of Leddy’s deal. That is a huge difference.

        • 2883

          Incorrect. MDZ’s contract was signed before this year… meaning the salary cap was a known quantity. The Rangers knew what the cap was going to be.

          • Checkers

            I never hinted that the Rangers didn’t know about the 2013-2014 cap when they signed that deal – of course the Rangers knew the cap would be $64.3M in his second year, but they also had the luxury of a $70M+ cap that first year. The Blackhawks don’t have that luxury and that is important.

          • 2883

            Neither did the Rangers seeing as how they had to live with the cap hit in year 2… It wasn’t going away.. Leddy is as much in the Hawks longterm plans as MDZ is to the Rangers. And I bet Leddy’s agent will make the same argument to the Hawks brass.

          • Checkers

            Are you purposefully being dense or something? Year 1 cap is more important in this scenario.

            Leddy may well be as important to their long-term plans, but when the most likely outcome is a short-term deal, Stan will just point to Leddy being firmly behind Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson and Oduya and then get on with it.

          • 2883

            No I think you underestimate the leverage Leddy has. He can solicit another deal from another team if the Hawks won’t come with a realistic offer. His agents will do their best to get what he’s worth. Just shy of 2.5 mil per year.

    • Why

      Leddy has no leverage to stay with the team but he can go and test the market just like a regular UFA could. The only differences are that the Hawks get a chance to match the offer and the team signing him has to be willing to give up draft picks if the Hawks don’t match.

      • Checkers

        Gee, thanks for letting me know about the possibility of an offer sheet. I never knew that existed.

        • Why

          So what are you talking about when you say he has no leverage?

          • Waylon

            I’m not sure what he means, either – have we forgotten about Nemo already? His agent actively pursued that offer sheet with DW.

          • Checkers

            The offer sheets from 2010 are a different beast, imo.

            As for why no leverage, the biggest reason is that it’ll be tough for a team and Leddy to agree to something. To expand, he’s got one year left before arb eligibility and four years until he’s eligible for UFA. I’d eat my hat if a team gave him a deal that would buyout even one year of UFA so that leaves shorter term deals.

            There’s no reason for Leddy to sign a 4 year deal unless he gets a premium and the premium that it’d take is prohibitively expensive. There’s a reason why MDZ/Subban settled on 2-year deals and why Patrik Berglund just settled on a 1-year deal. The player in that situation generally chooses the short-term deal.

            So that leaves in all likelihood a 1 or a 2-year deal. Also, you need to consider that offer sheets are relatively rare. I know we’re conditioned as Hawk fans to think of the Hjalmarsson/Niemi fiasco, but that doesn’t really hold. I apologize if this was a little disjointed.

          • Why

            I get what you’re saying now. The issue is that MDZ and Subban signed with teams that would let them play extended minutes. They got a greater chance to improve their value through the short length of their deals. If Leddy resigns with the Blackhawks, there’s a non-zero chance he spends the next year as the 5th defenceman, playing limited minutes.

            I also don’t have a clue what his preferences are. Does he want financial security? Is he like most successful young guys that want to bet on themselves? Does he simply want to remain with a good organization?

            I’ve got no doubt about Leddy’s potential and he’s an exceptional skater. I’m just not certain it’s a given that he comes back.

          • Checkers

            Yeah, it’s tough. I do think the Hawks match any reasonable offer sheet, but at the same time I don’t think an offer sheet is likely.

          • Why

            Fair enough, tough decision time now for the team.

  • Kevin

    Just under 2 million Chicago Blackhawk fans attended the Championship parade in 2010. That is this:

    1. More people that showed up during all of the Bulls 6 championships combined.

    2. More people, by far, that showed up during the Bears and White Sox parades.

    3. That’s well over the population of 2 San Francisco’s combined.

    4. That’s the total population of Milwaukee, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Cleveland, and Minneapolis converging here to celebrate history.

    Will 2013 be bigger? Tomorrow will tell.

    • Accipiter

      As long as Keenan is in attendance I will be happy.

      • Kevin

        He’s your hero, not mine–I’m joking!

        • 1benmenno

          Yes, and a fine joke it was

      • Z-man19

        Fuck Keenan, gimme HOSSA

        • Kevin

          Aren’t you a bit young to be using language like that?

          New rule here. How about everybody use their real picture of themselves as an avatar? Agreed? No pics of their dogs.

          • Z-man19

            That is not my dog

          • DesertHawk

            Even worse!!

          • Z-man19

            Ok, that is my dog, but I’ve always wanted to use that line

          • VanDorp’sMullet

            Kevin, my avatar IS a picture of me. I am actually literally Wayne Van Dorp’s mullet. I am the only sentient/thinking part left and I do his talking for him.

    • ballyb11

      It was big. I was there. No way there were 2 million people.

      Journalistic / City of Chicago muck-a-muck embellishment.

      • Kevin

        The reports from the city and media were 1.91 million. 1.85 was the least minimum.

      • Jim A

        How on earth could they count attendance? It will be 2.2 million tomorrow, just so there are more than in ’10.

        • laaarmer

          Keenan counts the attendance.

        • Kevin

          They do estimates based on square footage and how many folks can occupy a square foot. It’s accurate, give or take a few thousand.

          • laaarmer

            How many people can occupy a square foot? I need to know!

          • Z-man19

            Depends on the size of their feet

          • laaarmer

            What if they are really tall and fat, but only have one foot?

          • Kevin

            This is why it’s a tough job for me. Too many variables. I do believe they had 2 million in 2010. There were lines all during that parade that were 20 people deep.

          • laaarmer

            I waited in line at the store today. Had to be 2 million people there, at least.

          • Kevin

            Twenty people deep as from the street or sidewalk going away from that mark. Not a grocery store line, Einstein

          • Z-man19

            Hey dumbass, I’m Einstein

          • laaarmer

            I thought you were that other guy.

          • Z-man19

            I’m whoever you want me to be, just not Keenan

          • Kevin

            I can understand fully. Keenan is a hard man to live up to.

          • Accipiter

            Keenan is Keenan, that’s it man.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            You are Eisntein’s second coming. Don’t get cocky–errrr–don’t misrepresent yourself.

          • laaarmer

            There was a line 20 people deep and I estimate it at 2 MILLION people, give or take.
            Oppenheimer

          • Z-man19

            Put a short skinny, one footed dude next to him

          • Kevin

            Sound logic and a great example of urban planning. You get your gold star for that one. You are always thinking!!

      • mad-hatter

        They could have estimated everyone along the route, not just at the stage area. That adds up to two million pretty easily.

        • Kevin

          That’s how they got that big number. Good point here as the Hawks did travel a long distance to get to that point.

        • DJ

          Recall also that the Sox parade went through Bridgeport, Armour Square, Bronzeville, Pilsen, and the Little Village on its way downtown. Not sure that the authorities added on those crowd figures, but it wasn’t like they drive past two little kids and their puppy before they got downtown.

          • laaarmer

            How many of those fit in a square foot?

          • Accipiter

            YMMV.

          • laaarmer

            Are you allowed to say that? I don’t think Moses wanted us to say that.

          • Z-man19

            Moses Malone or Edwin Moses?

          • Kevin

            Charlton Heston??

          • Z-man19

            The guy from Tombstone?

          • laaarmer

            Edwin Moses. That dude could run and jump a lot

          • Kevin

            Two little kids and a puppy equate to 2 people. I’m thinking that there were about 1,542 total in those 5 neighborhoods. Maybe 141 off, though.

          • Paul the Fossil

            Yo mods, can you get rid of this fool? Feeling stupider from reading comments is not what I look for from the CI experience.

          • Kevin

            If they went through those areas they had to count the dead from stray bullets, so the attendance actually gets reversed.

      • Paul the Fossil

        Same conclusion here from the same firsthand observation. I was down in the crowd for a while and up high in a building looking down on it for a while, and while it was amazing, 2 million is just silly.

        • Kevin

          The parade was miles upon miles long! They started out at the UC and went to Michigan and Wacker.

          There were so many people there that people were standing blocks upon blocks away from the parade routes because they couldn’t get near the parade route.

          Are you kidding me?

  • laaarmer

    Some playoff numbers for dimwits
    Marian Hossa 22 GP 16 pts
    Patrick Sharp 23GP 16 pts
    Jonathan Toews 23GP 14pts
    Dave Bolland 18 GP 6 pts (one of them was a big one)

    Kevin! What is the EXACT problem with Hossa?

    • DesertHawk

      The problem is that Kevin is the same troll, or a copy cat, that was already banned… and the mods really should get rid of him as he’s obviously learned nothing.

      • QCBlackhawk

        I am of the opinion that Hossa must have accidentally run over his cat, as there is no other explanation possible for the amounts of irrational bullshit and hatred for him.

        • laaarmer

          Oh yeah, he’s a cat guy.

        • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

          Bullshitting irrational trolls?

        • Waylon

          His great – great grandfather’s family was murdered by marauding Solvaks.

          • laaarmer

            From Solvaria?

    • Accipiter
    • Kevin

      Who would have thought it. I guess I’m an idiotic, dumbass, piece of shit. Wow! Who would have thunk it.

      • laaarmer

        It took you an hour to write that?
        Come on, man. You are surely better than that, Shirley.

        • Z-man19

          MacLaine? She was solid

          • laaarmer

            Two Mules for Sister Sarah

          • Z-man19

            Oh yeah

      • Paul the Fossil

        Hmm, self-awareness…we may have to rule out the possibility that he is Mike Keenan.

    • Waylon

      Kev doesn’t like him just because – and also, he hears things…

  • 2883

    Anyone care about the NBA draft? No? ok… me neither

    • laaarmer

      Do they still have that? I thought LBJ put an end to it.

      • Z-man19

        Lyndon Johnson?

        • laaarmer

          He was awesome in the paint!

          • 2883

            I heard he went hard in the mf’in paint.

          • laaarmer

            Like a boss
            #LBJhardinthepaint

          • 2883

            Like a Bickell
            Bickell goes hard in the paint..

  • chidiver

    Game 6 replay on CSN at 7:00 for those (like me) who forgot to set the DVR on Monday. 10 min.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Watching right now. Little worried. B’s are dominating…. wait….

      I know it’s a replay, but I’m still yelling CLEAR THE PUCK

      • chidiver

        Ouch. Shaw just got popped in the face..hope he’s ok.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      I knew hockey had become my favorite sport when I started watching playoff replays of the Eastern Conference semi’s instead of live baseball.

      • chidiver

        Woo! Tazer!

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    What they’re really thinking.

  • AMR

    I’m so glad Sakic and Roy took over Colorado because they may be comically incompetent.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Colorado needs help with that?

      • AMR

        No but now with two hall of famers its just all that more awesome

    • VanDorp’sMullet

      Like Smith and Suhonen level incompetent? Or just normal incompetent?

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    Tin foil hat time: Q benched Leddy to keep his resign price down.

    • laaarmer

      Q resigned? DelBocaVista baby.

  • Z-man19

    In case you haven’t seen this enough, Kills linked this in a tweet

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCOinbvEsuU

    • pompoon

      I have a feeling I’m gonna be watching this all summer long.

      • Korab22

        Yep. Right to the favorites.

      • Z-man19

        Listening to Troy try to not get emotional just gets you right in the soft spot

        • Korab22

          The next Cup we win needs to be a 3-0, 4-1 no doubter in the final game. These guys have had two pretty tough calls. 2010 was “what happened”, 2013 was WTF just happened.

          • Z-man19

            I’d settle for doing it at home

          • Korab22

            Fair enough. Let’s make it a Game 6 though.

          • Z-man19

            4-6 would be fine by me

          • Korab22

            Greed is good.

          • Kevin

            If Mike Keenan coached them they would have won it in five (at home).

            The sad part of it is that you know it too.

            The one things out of many, is that Keenan knew how to intimidate refs. He would have never stood for those bad calls in Game 2.

          • laaarmer

            a.

          • Z-man19

            h.

          • laaarmer

            yep

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            you’re not even trying. you can do better than this.

          • 1benmenno

            You’re a sad, sad man.

          • BigCSouthside

            They would have won in 3

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      That’s my all time favorite thing in the world. Thanks, Z

      • Z-man19

        Thank Kills, I just passed it along

        • Paul the Fossil

          A thousand upboats.

    • Kevin

      The only month I’m looking forward to.

    • Toews still makes funny faces!

      Damn dust!

      • 10thMountainFire

        Who the FUCK is peeling onions in here?

    • http://www.thecommittedindian.com/ PowrFwd37

      THIS, is the best thing, ever….

      Well, outside of the actual events depicted.

  • CozBullsFan

    I guess I’ll add my 2 cents to this thread. First off, I’ll admit I’ve had my doubts about Stan. He proved me wrong. Buying out Rusty and Steve was the right move. Hossa has a few good years left. When that changes, there will be a cap floor team that will be up for a trade. Stals is gone, no problem with that. Bolland will most likely be gone, no problem with that. Bicks, Leddy, and Kruger will be back. I believe Stan will fill the gaps and we’ll be rolling again next year.

    • zacked

      You can’t trade the recapture penalty that has already been acquired.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    From PD’s Hockey Hugs

    • lizmcneill

      UNLEASH THE BICKELL

    • BigCSouthside

      Thats one hockey looking motherfucker

  • laaarmer
    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      Could you imagine the Wings absorbing that cap hit? Pure fantasy.

      • MySpoonIsTooBig

        I’m not sure I follow you. First of all, the cap hit for Vinny will (or at least should) be considerably lower than the $7.7M it’s been for Tampa – he’s being bought out, not waived or traded, so he’ll sign a new contract and I’d imagine his new cap hit will be about half of that.

        Second, the Scum’s cap situation is perfectly tenable right now. They’ve got north of $10.5M in cap space with very few holes to fill – they’ve already got 12 F, 6 D, and 2 G under contract. They’ve got 4 RFA’s that they’d probably like to re-sign – Andersson, Nyquist, Kindl, and Smith – none of whom should really break the bank. They’ve got a couple of players whose cap hits they’ll remove from the books by either sending them down to the AHL (young guys making less than $900K) or via trade. The only UFA they’ve got that they probably really want to bring back is Brunner, who again shouldn’t break the bank, and if it were a choice between getting Lecavelier or re-signing Brunnner I think they’d happily bid Brunner adieu. I would imagine that their other UFA’s – Cleary, Filppula, and White – are all allowed to walk, regardless of what else happens.

        What’s all that mean? It means that if he can be signed to a contract with a cap hit under $4.5M, the Scum probably does have the ability to absorb that cap hit. I’d care, but they’re not our problem anymore so I don’t.

  • AMR

    letang turns down 8 year 56 million deal

    • QCBlackhawk

      lol

    • Accipiter

      He gone.

    • laaarmer

      He go to MonreAl wit Vinneh

    • Accipiter
      • Why

        Wow. Just wow.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Could it be that the Pittsburgh ship is being abandoned?

    • Black JEM

      I can’t imagine for a non-lock down first pair DMan – and let’s face it, he would be number 4 here unless Seabs doesn’t recover – that type of money. He may have done Pittsburg a huge favor.

      Boston exposed him for the non-elite DMan he is.

  • Z-man19

    Holy crap, they scored

  • Kevin

    Buckner is off the hook.

    I still believe that the B’s choked in the clinching game. We never saw the B’s give up any easy goals in the series and then … BAM! The Hawks play their best when they are desperate (the Red Wings series were a perfect example).

    • 10thMountainFire

      I do not approve of this.

      Boston was classy after we took home the Cup. Don’t fuck this up.

    • 1benmenno

      Stop with the pandering. Or maybe cheer for some other team.

  • chidiver

    Ha! CSN left in Shaw’s f-bombs when he lifted the Cup. Love it!

  • VanDorp’sMullet

    Is there gonna be a draft preview on this site? Hawks have made some great picks the last few years. Saad… Teravainen… Danault. Can’t wait though having no 2nd or 3rd rounders this year takes a little of the sass out of the draft.

    • Accipiter

      The Hawks winning the SC makes up for the lack of picks …

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      We’ll get some picks in a trade.

  • Toews still makes funny faces!

    Hmmm
    VAN went 3-6 in Clinching Games and 1-1 in elimination Games the year they faced the B’s.

    The Hawks went 4-0 in clinching games and 3-0 in elimination games.

    Almost HALF of the Games the Hawks won (7/16) either ended a series or a loss would have ended them! CLUTCH!!!!

    • Black JEM

      As much as Q frustrates me – his record in games where the Hawks can clinch is 10-2 in the playoffs. And one of the losses was to Vancouver game seven 2011.

      • Accipiter

        CAMPOLI !!!!!!!!

      • DesertHawk

        I think that’s Crow’s record, with Q’s being better.

  • Toews still makes funny faces!

    I guess I need to update my Avatar,………………………AGAIN! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Z-man19

      How’s the weather out there?

      • Toews still makes funny faces!

        85 and Sunny.

        I SOOOOOO Wish I was still stationed back in CT. I had the $$$$ to blow to be at game 6 this past Monday and my house is only 90 mins from Bahstun!

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          85? That’s getting hot.

        • Z-man19

          that’s the trade off for being able to be on the beach in January :P

          • Toews still makes funny faces!

            Fuck the Beach, give me ice!

  • Accipiter
  • Accipiter
  • Accipiter
  • Toews still makes funny faces!

    New Avatar

    • 10thMountainFire

      I love you.

    • BigCSouthside

      Baller. I need to switch over to my shoot the dog with the cup in the background from 2010.

  • cza

    At the risk of being thrown off the forum, let me raise this question again: do you have faith #7′s mind is right? I would like to keep him, but he is expensive and his strong playoff finish did not erase the image of him looking so off at the start. Many of you watch the games more closely/consistently than I do, so I’m interested in whether you think he just had a rough spell or if he’s slipped a bit.

    • Toews still makes funny faces!

      #7 will be alright. If #4 can come back from the funk he was in for TWO seasons, Seabs most certainley can as well.

      • Why

        1/2 of the best defensive pairing in the world throughout the playoffs.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Oh, for fuck’s sake. I can’t believe this bullshit has started already.

      We haven’t had the parade yet and the Cup is still wet with champagne. You’re seriously psychoanalyzing Brent motherfucking Seabrook?

      • 1benmenno

        What have the Romans ever done for us?

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          the aquaduct?

    • BigCSouthside

      Yes I do. He provided council to the Captain. Hes a respected leader of the team. Seabs is fine, I just think he should always be playing with Keith. That is probably the best defensive pairing in the league.

    • MySpoonIsTooBig

      Brent Seabrook had a subpar season, therefore we should definitely get rid of him. Because no one ever bounces back from a down season. Especially not players who are among a team’s most important vocal leaders.

    • mad-hatter

      While I don’t think it’s incorrect to start worrying about Seabrook’s head considering his concussion history, it is too soon to think he might slipping from those injuries based on one season. He didn’t stay in shape well enough during the lockout and the condensed season didn’t help. These kind of discussions are way too premature for a player like him.

  • cliffkoroll

    Lot of great acumen on cap issues in this thread. Give yourselves a pat on the back.

    I have a couple questions: the cap is $64.3 million, right?

    Is there a way to express the Montador and Olesz buy-outs in terms of $X dollars applied against this cap? If so, what is X?

    Also, this bonus adjustment thing. It appears to allow for ‘extra’ payroll above the cap. Are there tiny limits on permissible bonus payments or something? Are bonuses included in individual cap hit numbers?

    Thank you.

    • mad-hatter

      Montador and Olesz buyouts will not count against the cap because they’re amnesty buyouts. They work the same way as compliance, but the team doesn’t suffer any penalties in cap hits.

      As for permissible bonus payments, there is a limit set at 7.5% of the cap ceiling for that current year. If a team’s bonuses exceed that amount then they roll over as penalties for the next season.

      • cliffkoroll

        So, the formula – 2/3 over twice the length of contract or whatever – this describes the cash buy-out the team needs to make, but none of this payout goes against the cap?

        On bonuses, for example, Saad shows a salary of $894,167. He also has a bonus of $82,500. Is the $82,500 part of the $894,167, or on top of it?

        • MySpoonIsTooBig

          On top of it – $894,167 was his base salary / cap hit, but since he’s on an ELC it can have performance bonuses included. If he reaches certain milestones (which he probably did) then he earns his bonus. The rub is that if the bonus would put your team above that season’s salary cap then it’s applied to the next season’s cap instead.

          That’s a big part of the reason why the ‘Hawks salary cap situation was so fucked after winning the Cup in 2010 – they were right up against the cap going in, so they couldn’t absorb the bonuses earned by Toews and Kane among others (who if you recall were still on the final year of their own ELC’s) and as a result the ‘Hawks had several million dollars worth of bonuses earned in 2009-10 count against the 2010-11 salary cap.

          • cliffkoroll

            Thank you both again. Since the Hawks were under the cap this year, they don’t have to worry about any ‘spillover’ for the upcoming season, right?

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            That should be correct. The ‘Hawks had more than enough cap space heading into the postseason to absorb any potential bonuses earned. Also, only 2 players who were still on ELC’s saw significant time with the ‘Hawks during either the regular season or the postseason – Saad and Leddy. And while they both had good seasons, neither one was superstar-level dominant like Toews and Kane were in 2009-10 and thus neither would have earned the same level of bonuses.

            If I recall correctly, a BIG chunk of the bonus that Toews earned for 2010 was for winning the Conn Smythe, since that went to someone who’s not on an ELC and thus not eligible for performance bonuses this year it won’t cause the same problem.

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            Forgot about Shaw, he’s on an ELC too, but he’s in the same boat as Saad and Leddy in terms of good but not even close to Toews/Kane superstar dominance while still on an ELC

          • lizmcneill

            I think Kane also had a “scored X goals” type bonus. Knowing Kaner he probably got it every year of his ELC…

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            Let’s just hope that Shaw doesn’t have any sort of “piss off to an extreme degree X people” type of bonus in his ELC

        • mad-hatter

          Yep, zilch, zero, nada against the cap. That’s only for these two buyouts though.

          I have a different opinion of Spoon though, regarding the bonuses of Saad’s contract. I believe that salary now includes those bonuses, based on what capgeek says and this old article from Rogers when he was first signed.
          http://espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/story/_/id/7058454/chicago-blackhawks-sign-brandon-saad

          And no, no worries for next year on spillovers. I don’t think the Hawks’ roster made enough bonuses anyway. Only Saad was bonus eligible.

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            There was an exception for the 2011-12 season because of the uncertainty heading into the 2012-13 season. For 2011-12 only, all potential bonuses included in a contract counted against the 2011-12 salary cap from day 1 of the season regardless of how likely it was that a player would earn that bonus. This was due to the expiring CBA and the upcoming labor battle, because nobody knew what the new CBA would entail the league could not allow for a situation where bonuses put a team over the 2011-12 cap and needed to spill over to 2012-13

            Also – signing bonuses always count against the cap because they’re guaranteed, they count just like salary. That’s also the only type of bonus that’s allowed in a non-ELC. I’m talking strictly about performance bonuses.

          • mad-hatter

            Ah, okay I understand now. Either way, it’s not an amount to be concerned about.

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            Yup, the ‘Hawks have no bonuses that can’t fit under the 2013 cap to spill over into the 2013-14 cap so no cause for concern

      • Why

        If I understand correctly, there’s only one slight error here. In any year, a team can have “potential” bonuses of 7.5% of the cap or “Upper Payroll Limit”. However, if actual bonuses paid put the team over the cap, the amount the team goes over the cap is subtracted from their Upper Payroll Limit the next year.

    • Accipiter
  • cliffkoroll

    I started, naturally, from a standpoint of: We like our people!

    If the Hawks try to keep everybody and pay ‘em what they need to, they’re about $5.3 million over.

    Question: are the Hawks stuck with Brookbank and Carcillo? I suppose they could go to Rock Vegas, right? They wouldn’t save anything on Carcillo anyway, but Olsen, Stanton, some guy can fill this spot for a bit cheaper.

    The next guy out is Stalberg. Sorry, Q no like you. Morin in. That saves a million (figuring Stals gets $2 million- he might get more.)

    Next out is Handzus. Thanks Mike. What a huge pick-up. No hard feelings. Benefits to both sides and all that rot. Pirri in- another million+ saved.

    Down to $2.8 million over. Would a savvy veteran like Rosival be interested in a pay cut. He got his payday a couple contracts ago- how a bout a shot at back-to-back Cups? Maybe shave half a million there.

    If not, I still think Rosi is in the conversation at $2 mildo.

    So, the $2.8 million overage is based on Bickell and Leddy costing about $3 million each. Sneaky Dave rings in it $3.375…and… it’s um, a contract year.

    Seems like the Hawks can prolly squeeze 2 out of 3 here. Incredibly difficult choice, IMO. An apple, an orange, and a kumquat. Great arguments all around. Upon reflection, though, I’m not so sure Bolly is the odd man out.

    • MySpoonIsTooBig

      If the ‘Hawks waived Carcillo and sent him down to Rockford (assuming no one claims him, which is probably a safe assumption) They would save a bit because he’d be completely buried. While the new CBA no longer allows teams to bury high-priced contracts in the AHL or overseas like the ‘Hawks did with Huet for 2 years, it does allow you to bury the first $900K of salary in the minors. For example, if the Penguins decided they didn’t want Marc-Andre Fleury on their roster any more but don’t buy him out and can’t find anyone willing to take him via trade or claim him off of waivers, they can send him to the AHL and his $5M cap hit will only count as a $4.1M cap hit.

      Why is that relevant? Because Carcillo’s salary / cap hit is only $825K, so if he is sent down to Rockford his cap hit is ENTIRELY off the books. Same applies for Bollig @ $575K. If you did the same to Brookbank he wouldn’t be completely buried but it would be close – his $1.25 M cap hit would be reduced to only $350K

      • cliffkoroll

        Danka. Shades of 2011. Get your I-Pass out, every dollar counts.

        • lizmcneill

          The Rockford Shuttle rides again!

          We’re lucky that Rockford is so close to Chicago, think Scum is the only other WC team to havwe its affiliate within driving distance.

          • MySpoonIsTooBig

            There’s also the Texas Stars (Dallas Stars) and Abbotsford Heat (Calgary Flames), but that’s about it. I thought there were more, but after looking it up I think that the next closest WC NHL team and AHL affiliate are Scum Jr. and the Wolves, and that’s not that close

          • lizmcneill

            Abbotsford to Calgary is something like 10 hours. Wolves to Scum Jr would be 5 hours or so, right?

          • Black JEM

            Minnesota is moving theirs to Iowa from Houston so they will be close.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    It’s not just this year Stan is thinking about. Crow comes up next year, and the year after that DDN and Saad. Bank some cap space or go fro broke and hope for some record revenues?

    • mad-hatter

      He has to bank. If he can’t sign both because he estimated too high, then that’s a pretty horrible gaffe.

    • Accipiter

      The cap is going to go up up up after this upcoming season.

      • Why

        Probably, but by how much?

        • Accipiter

          Probably 1 dollar.
          Use it wisely Stan.

          • Why

            It will be an important dollar. Wait until next year to buy your T-shirts and commemorative shit. We might be able to get this thing up to $2.50.

      • laaarmer

        Go ahead, bite the big apple.