• 10thMountainFire

    Good stuff from SCH:

    ‘Niklas Hjalmarsson had a very strong game for the Blackhawks, which was important given that Johnny Oduya was scratched just before the game started due to a lower body injury. This also shows just how useless a stat +/- is since despite his strong game, Hjalmarsson was a -2 on the night while leading the team in even strength ice time at 26:40.’

    • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

      Haven’t been over there in ages. I got angry quite a while back about a stats post that was so grade-schoolish as to be laughable. Has the writing improved of late?

      • 10thMountainFire

        I haven’t, either. Saw the linked article and was impressed by that paragraph. It looks pretty decent.

      • VerStig

        I think Jen’s pretty legit. I don’t know about Greg.

      • birdhead

        Jen does some good Blackhawks stat-y stuff on the tweet machine.

    • jordyhawk

      I think you have to qualify it. It’s one stat for one game. Over time, +/- will mean something. (single season record: B.Orr +124, 1970/71).

      • Paul the Fossil

        Right. Also we now have the information with which to get a sense of how much luck is a factor in a particular player’s plus-minus over a decent sample size. If Player A is leading his team in plus-minus because the team’s goalies happen to be going .950 while he’s on the ice then take the stat with a big grain of salt. And/or if he’s heavily sheltered in terms of zone starts, and/or if he’s mostly playing against other teams’ bottom lines.

        If none of those qualifiers apply though and the player is putting up an outstanding plus-minus, then the stat _is_ a legit marker that he’s having an outstanding season.

        • jordyhawk

          For sure. All of these numbers need to taken in context. The stats are all worth considering and often do tell you something, but hockey plays are much harder to isolate than say baseball where each play is much more discrete. I don’t know if you’ll ever see a hockey version of Bill James.

          • Paul the Fossil

            Well James’ best and most-compelling work was at the level of identifying which things do and do not actually contribute to winning in MLB. [As distinct from his work on comparing individual players to each other, which was sometimes persuasive but sometimes not.] Demonstrating for example that lineup protection basically doesn’t exist at the major-league level, that getting on base has much more to do with scoring more runs than do things like stealing bases, etc.

            The advances in NHL analytics using proxies for puck possession (Corsi, Fenwick) seem to have a lot of the same resonance. That the possession stats do successfully predict future results (e.g. what’s happening to the Maple Leafs right now) more often than they don’t is the best indicator that the analytic approach is valid, and James was always crystal clear that his overall frame was “figuring out the real reasons that teams win or lose.” And he was always focused more on the winning/losing of seasons than of individual games.

          • zacked

            Not that I disagree with you, but in honor of NMF, I will say that despite my stats nerdiness, my favourite work of James’ is his history in the NBJHBA.

          • Paul the Fossil

            Oh I COMPLETELY agree with that! Love the Historical Abstract and have poured over it many times. I should have said his best _analytic_ work.

          • guest

            I think the biggest issue is that hockey is so much harder to chop into discrete events like baseball. Every single play in baseball has a start and a stop with one or two things that happened in a few seconds. You can make those data points and plot them to your heart’s content, and they’ve been being collected by old guys with those play-by-play notebooks for centuries so it’s not like collecting them is a big deal. Every player also basically stands alone when it comes to offense, so individual stats mean so much more.

            Meanwhile, hockey is so much more complex to collect data on. Systems matter so much more. Teammates in baseball might not change your OBP, but you betcher ass that if you just plugged Toews into the top line of the Sabres he wouldn’t see the number he sees here. The only events really tracked are goals and shots, and possession metrics end up being crude approximations using those.

            It’s definitely a step above Foley crucifying checking line forwards for giving up more goals than they score against teams’ top lines (despite the fact that that mismatch has allowed our top line to score many, many more), but comparing it to sabermetrics is going way too far. Hockey fans just don’t have the same quality or quantity of data to work with in any way, shape or form.

          • jordyhawk

            That was what I was getting at (better said by you).

          • Paul the Fossil

            At the team level we now do, which is what I was mainly referring to. Separating the game into individual-player contributions is much harder, sure.

          • guest

            You’re right, but I think when people in general make the comparison they have moneyball on the mind. Advanced stats are in a great place now to tell you what teams are actually likely to win and lose playing the way they are, and are great for fans. Where the disconnect is to me is its usefulness to coaches and GMs. Let’s say you make a move to jettison that possession black hole and pick up a guy who seems to drive it on another team–how do you know their numbers weren’t situational in both cases?

            When it comes to coaching, I think most coaches (who are not red-assed and working in Toronto) would agree that it’s better to have the puck than not have it for more of the time. The question is: should you construct real offense or just throw the puck at the net willy-nilly? One of this raises your corsi more. Does that actually make you win, or are you just gaming numbers to make yourself look good, like acting as though going to an SAT prep course actually made you smarter?

            (insert weekly shot quality/luck debate here)

            I know you don’t think like this, but when most people bitch and moan about how the old boys club in hockey ignores advanced stats I think they’re overstating the utility of the stats to the club. There’s no hockey WAR, and I’m not convinced there can be.

          • birdhead

            if you don’t mind me jumping in because I actually have an opinion about this.

            Let’s say you make a move to jettison that possession black hole and pick up a guy who seems to drive it on another team–how do you know their numbers weren’t situational in both cases?

            GMs and coaches have mostly all forgotten more about hockey than I’ll ever know, right? So in some sense they can be relied on to watch that player and figure out where that number is coming from.

            This Dellow post from the other day: http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6873 compares relative Corsi (i.e. how good a player’s Corsi is relative to his team) and the amount of time on ice that player gets, finding a pretty strong correlation. That could mean that if you get more ice time your Corsi improves but in theory the more ice time you get the closer it would be to the team average, so what it probably means is that coaches give players with good relative Corsi more time on ice. I don’t think coaches are hopping on extraskater after games or anything; I think that having a good Corsi relative to your team is recognisable to an NHL coach as you playing well, driving play and possession.

            So there is something there that is visible if you look for it. The way I anticipate using the numbers is to check one’s instinct (this guy is scoring a lot or getting scored on a lot; that kind of thing is going to bias how I see his play; let me have a look at the numbers) or to make up for the fact that nobody can see every shift by every player, even professionals.

          • guest

            I agree pretty much completely. It’s another stat that points you to the reality–qualified by how the player skates, what kind of game they play, what kind of hands they have, and where in their team’s system they’re expected to be performing.

            What it isn’t is a numerical revolution that will sweep aside the fat old farts with Brat Pitts who use math magic.

            That said, while I know way less about basketball than hockey (and I know very little about hockey), it would seem they’re in a similar predicament in terms of the difficulty of data collection. However, they’re investing heavily into it and are trying to make it possible to quantify players the way that baseball analysts can naturally. Extra cameras, tracking algorithms, the whole shebang.
            ( http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/ ). Way more so than “pander to corsi numbers,” I wish NHL GMs would start investing in systems like this. Those would be some advanced stats.

          • Paul the Fossil

            So far Corsi in the modern era (the post-2005-lockout NHL rules) has pretty consistently turned out to correlate well with winning, right? At least that’s the impression I’m under…if that’s correct then adopting tactics which tend to raise your Corsi percentage is a more substantive move than the SAT prep course example.

          • M7

            I disagree. I feel my eyes provide a better view of a teams competancy then any current team wide metric. That’s just me though.

            I like stats, I just don’t think the hockey ones are very good at the moment (team or individual).

        • guest

          It’s a stat like any other, to be qualified like any other. None of them can stand in a vacuum. Does Ovi’s goal marker represent his season when he’s been so atrocious on defense?

        • birdhead

          If none of those qualifiers apply though and the player is putting up an
          outstanding plus-minus, then the stat _is_ a legit marker that he’s
          having an outstanding season.

          That player is probably putting up a lot of goals and assists too though …

          • Paul the Fossil

            Well sure. Goals and assists don’t tell us whether he’s worth a crap at the other end though, that’s the original concept behind plus-minus as a stat.

      • 10thMountainFire

        No Math Friday!!!

        • jordyhawk

          I forgot (still reeling from last night’s hockey version of a blown save).

          • 10thMountainFire

            I saw numbers. Freaked me out. Got frightened.

        • red palace

          Well, then. These new fancystats on Extra Skater were designed with you in mind. Check the 3rd chart down:

          http://www.extraskater.com/game/2014-04-03-wild-blackhawks#game-charts

          • zacked

            I don’t know if it means anything, but it’s funny that on the second chart there, both CHI goals happen after flurries of activity, while both MIN goals happen after periods of relative inactivity.

            Also that momentum chart is hilarious, is it based on actual data?

          • laaarmer

            Those periods of inactivity are where you find the elusive thing we like to call luck

          • ChicagoNativeSon

            And once they hit OT, the Hawks chances of winning dropped.

          • red palace

            No idea, I think they’ve got a stack of those paintings made by elephants, that they scan and upload.

          • 10thMountainFire

            That’s perfect.

    • cliffkoroll

      Eh. Nice player, but Seabrook is better.

    • VerStig

      He was also dragging Brookbank around all game. That’s almost bad as being Seabrook’s D partner!

  • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

    Let’s do the Leafs a solid tonight, huh, and blow up the BJs. I’d like that. A first round match between the Bruins and the Leafs would be SO entertaining to watch. I think it could go seven. For real.

    • zacked

      I’m torn. I don’t want Leafs management rewarded for their hubris, but I’m also afraid that if the Leafs’ don’t make the playoffs (which they won’t), they’ll all get the can, and deprive me of all this beautiful schadenfreude.

      • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

        I think they’re another season away from firings, but who knows.

        • lizmcneill

          Even if they miss the playoffs? I think Carlyle goes in that case. Nonis and the rest of the shower in the front office probably get another year though.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I won’t myself be upset if Carlyle goes, and I would 100% understand the decision, but part of me thinks management will want at least a semblance of stability after Wilson then Burke disappeared (especially factoring the manner in which Burke disappeared). Leiweke seems like a patient, analytical guy, and as the new decision-maker I just get the sense he’s going to want to take another season to evaluate things. Pure hunch, of course.

          • lizmcneill

            He’s so bad though. Defending the lead they just fold into their own zone. All 3 F were lower than the hashmarks with Boston pressing hard. That’s not going to end well.

          • zacked

            I was watching the Leafs game during the intermission breaks last night, and the second funniest thing I saw (besides Ranger supplexing Bergeron on his own goalies’ extended leg for no reason at all) was, on the 2nd Bruins goal, all 5 of the Leafs in the same quarter of the zone. Literally 4 of the 5 leafs are in the left circle, with the 5th screening his goalie. And then the exact same thing on the tying goal, but in the right circle.

            I sometimes think the ‘hawks collapse too much, but if they played like the Leafs do under Carlyle I wouldn’t be able to watch.

          • lizmcneill

            Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of. I’ve seen it before, too.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            My only solace is following (which is to say, not watching) the mid-90s to mid-2000s Hawks, and keeping in mind that these things do change.

            That team is a clusterfuck. The hurtful thing is they have some real talent on that team, they could be so much better without too many huge roster changes.

      • guest

        Don’t worry, Van’s continuous meltdown should provide enough of that to keep me warm for years.

    • lizmcneill

      I think that would raise their playoff chances to a mighty 13%.

      I like ‘Lumbus, let’s break the “no wins in OT” streak and spot them a loser point.

      • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

        Leafs are my mistress, I gotta hold out hope that they can still make it. They can’t, but my hope doesn’t know that.

        • lizmcneill

          They can if they win all 4 remaining, NJ doesn’t, and Columbus go .500.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Sorry, ya … I knew it was mathematically possible. It’s just not mapleleafly possible unless some god shines down from above to give the go-ahead.

          • lizmcneill

            Remember if they do squeak in, they face Boston in the first round. Which will cause most pain to Leafs fans? That’s what will happen.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I was saying that! I really think Toronto/Boston would be the most entertaining first-round match-up (maybe outside the Pacific 2-3 series). I even think they could give them a good run (I acknowledge I might be a little blind to reality in this case!)

          • 10thMountainFire

            NO. MATH. FRIDAY.

        • laaarmer

          I have a mistress as well. Montreal. Sorry. Dad used to bring me to watch every time they werei n town, and while I wanted to watch the Hawks while there, Robinson, Lefleur, Cornoyer, Shutt, and Dryden were mesmerizing.
          To this day, I love them, except Subban. Don’t like that guy.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            You and I are cruising for a bar scrap. I’ve grabbed a bottle and I won’t hesitate to break it.

          • laaarmer

            Go right ahead. You can’t hurt me.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            You type a brave sentence. I’m not sure anymore.

          • 10thMountainFire

            You want to go do karate in the garage?

        • ChicagoNativeSon

          Mine is also Toronto. But it’s become a very distant 2nd as the years go on. My dad took me to lots of Leafs games. And he loved the Canadian anthem.

          The tradition has been passed down. I made sure that the first game that each of my kids attended was against the Leafs – and in time to hear both anthems.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I grew up there, and all my best friends are blue-blooders, so it’s there in me, unavoidably. Saw Gretzky play in Maple Leaf Gardens, Howe in his Whalers year. Lanny, Darryl, then Dougie, Wendell. Memories! Without Chicago games on tv except when they played Montreal or Toronto in the old Norris, the Leafs were all I had.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Wendell Clark, former Hawk.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Ha! Same with Gilmour! And minus the Leas connection, Bobbie Orr. Don’t know why McDonough hasn’t reached out to Orr to be an Ambassador.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Or, dare I say it… Larmer?

        • 10thMountainFire

          I would go with the Rangers or Canadiens. I still love you, though.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Now I need two broken bottles, one for laaarmer, one for you. For the record, I don’t WANT to do this, I’ve been left with no choice.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Don’t worry. It will hurt me more than it hurts you.

    • guest

      Man the leafs are the second worst and their fans are the worst. They’ve staked their ground this year on “everyone else in the league is wrong, possession doesn’t matter” and it’s finally biting them in the ass. The only reason their complete inability to play team defense or limit opposing chances didn’t screw them sooner is Reimer’s amazing play, and now that he’s coming the slightest bit back to earth they’ve completely turned on him and started harassing his wife on twitter. It’s completely disgusting. The leafs deserve everything they get and their whiny, entitled fans deserve it even more.

      Meanwhile, Lumbus is a scrappy team that plays with heart
      in a market that needs a playoff run. Not a market that expects a playoff run because it’s the biggest one in the world and the most storied franchise and yada yada yada bs, but one where a playoff run would actually grow the game.

      #Lumbus #believe #thistimeit’snotjustbob

      • lizmcneill

        And Bernier’s amazing play, too. What, they just played him hurt and he blew out his groin when his own dman pushed Bergy on top of him? Oh.

      • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

        My apologies for being a really shitty fan, I’ll try better next year.

        • guest

          You’re a hawks fan first, so I wouldn’t include you in the blanket leafs “oh yaa good ontario boyssss, gotta get dat clarkson ta play hard” hivemind unless you want to be.

          • laaarmer

            hivemind!
            outed.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            It’s the biggest fan base in the world of hockey by a mile. You’re gonna get a whole bunch of assholes. Barking dogs. Every house on the street may have a dog, but you only need to hear one of them barking at 2am to hate them all.

          • guest

            Yankees have the biggest fanbase in the USA of any sport, and are all 100% douchebags (source: grew up near NYC, am a yankees fan)

            Further evidence:

            http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1010077/baseballyankeefans.gif

          • 10thMountainFire

            Philadelphia and Boston are much, much, much worse than New York.

          • guest

            I really just wanted an excuse to find and look at that gif again, it’s the gif(t) that keeps on giving. I’m always finding new things. The bigger old guy saying f you (twice). The parent pointing to his child “one day, son, one day you too will be that insufferable.” It’s amazing.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            My dad’s a HUGE Yankee fan. Keeps a Mattingly-signed ball with him in his car’s glovebox, for christ sake. Still, never thought of him as much of a douchebag.

            Believe me, I’m not taking this personally. I just think it’s kind of funny, the hyperbole. Show me just a thousand fans of Mother Theresa, for fucksakes, and I’ll show you some assholes.

          • 10thMountainFire

            The Red Sox managed the impossible: making me root for the Yankees when they play one another.

          • 10thMountainFire

            As a Catholic, might I recommend Christopher Hitchens’ book on Mother Theresa?

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I’d be curious. I loved Hitchens but never read any of his books, just articles here and there over the years.

          • 10thMountainFire

            He finds some incredibly discomforting personal relationships between Mother Theresa and some horrible dictators and tyrants. In the name of money.

            He also addresses the idea that in suffering lies the key to peace and happiness but that is more of an ideological schism between Hitch and religion. I was able to divorce myself from his personal problem with organized religion to examine his more thoughtful investigation of her personal connections. It’s worth the time. His book on Kissinger is better, though.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I’ll definitely investigate at some point in the near future. As a literature grad, Why Orwell Matters will probably be my first go, and then into more of his more overtly political and religious criticism.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Check out his book on Thomas Paine and the Rights of Man, his book on Thomas Jefferson (‘Author of America’), and his memoir ‘Hitch-22′. All are incredible.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Those are now in an active corner of my brain. Thanks.

          • guest

            I think if you dig into many charities or NGOs that operate in the developing world you’ll find “deals with the devil”–when the choice is cooperate with a dictator and do some good for the people or refuse and do nothing, there’s a tendency to not do nothing. Her level of coziness was higher than most, but still. To me the most distressing was just the quality of medical care. I guess that’s tied up with the religion thing, since her intentional non-use of many painkillers was part of her whole theology of suffering.

            The whole thing makes you really think about what it is to be “selfless.” She absolutely gave her life to the poor, but were her actions best for them or best for the Catholic Church? If a Catholic baptizes a Hindu on their deathbed, are they a saint saving the Hindu from hell, or are they an imperialist imposing their religion on someone who can’t say no? If you minister to someone suffering by telling them their suffering is bringing them closer to God, is that helping more or less than a doctor who would just render them into a stupor with drugs?

            Hitchens answers all of these questions in his typical polemical way (of course religion is the Worst Thing Ever), but his reporting still raises them.

            (This is a hockey blog).

          • 10thMountainFire

            Sure, you’ll find them. As a Catholic, I refrain from the hive mind for that particular reason… I’m an international relations Offensive Realist from the school of Mearsheimer (I live in the hive…). It’s often difficult for me to reconcile my religious affiliation with my world view. War had something to do with that later but yes, your post is accurate.

            Hitch was a self-conscious contrarian. He made sure he always looked at the other side of the argument… except religion. Heh.

          • Waylon

            ooh, boy. I loved Hitchens, but when he began calling her “The Whore of Calcutta,” I knew he’d really poked a hornet’s nest.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I bet you he giggled out loud in his study, to the point of choking, when he coined that and put it to paper.

          • Waylon

            Hitchens was the par excellence for the title of “agent provocateur.” The man loved to get a rise out of people, and usually succeeded. Once a committed Marxist then went in a more central direction, his feuds with former colleague Studs Terkel were always entertaining (I loved Studs’s work as well). Used to work with Studs right down the hallway from my office, back when I was at WFMT.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Dirty secret: I reversed myself on a very, very, very important foreign policy topic largely due to Hitchens. It was a rare case of one guy being right and everyone else being wrong.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            Flip-flopper!

          • laaarmer

            Yes, it’s better to be a zealot and know you are right.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Theme of the day: BEES!

          • guest

            That’s awesome, Mattingly was my childhood hero. I wanted to have a mustache when I grew up so badly.

            You have a point, there are even people who 100% believe Mother Teresa herself was a huge asshole for a variety of reasons. She is (almost) straight-up a saint.

          • cliffkoroll

            It’s true. For example, I’m a fan of Mother Theresa.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            At least now I have evidence. It’s always nice to move things beyond suspicion.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Why haven’t more people upboated that post?

          • The Doctor

            1000 assholes to be exact.

          • 10thMountainFire

            The guy behind the guy in the front has the awesomest waist line in the history of waist lines.

          • M7

            He’s got a body Grimmus AND the A&W Root Bear would be envious of.

          • 10thMountainFire

            One could easily post a gif of the fan who took the helmet in the 100 level earlier this season and imply all Hawks fans are dolts.

  • jordyhawk

    The game was a good opportunity for our guys to step-up and achieve something on their own sans 19/88 (i.e. a character builder). We would have pulled it off if CC doesn’t go cross-eyed on that floater. I really hate blowing games late, and then winning in the shootout and acting like it’s fine because we got the points. That’s bullshit.

    • roadhog

      “I really hate blowing games late” x1,000

      • jordyhawk

        Just a heads up, you might be reprimanded for the arithmetic calculation on “No Math Friday.” Sample suggested edit:

        “I really hate blowing games late” a great deal.

        • roadhog

          I just reprimanded myself, and it hurt, but I can’t quantify how much.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Because… it’s Friday.

  • ChicagoNativeSon

    Per Fork at Hockeenight:

    [Corey Crawford] bailed out Brent Seabrook numerous times where he lost his man and saw him skate in on Craw unmolested.

    THE UGLY:

    How many times tonight did Pat Foley say “past Seabrook” or “around Seabrook”? Seabrook is wearing the third “A” with Toews out, but at this point he’s actually becoming a liability out there.

    Bees! Bees! Bzzzzzzzz!

    http://img.pandawhale.com/61630-Oprah-bees-gif-qnU7.gif

    • Paul the Fossil

      I have no idea what that gif means but suspect that it is one of the signs of the Apocaplyse.

      Also I am giggling at the idea of taking Foley’s play by play, nowadays, to be any sort of indicator of any player’s overall effectiveness. Might as well start letting McGuire pick the Olympic teams or something.

      • 10thMountainFire

        I have no idea what’s going on in that gif but it’s so awesome I can’t look away.

        • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

          It’s a shopped version of Oprah announcing everyone in the studio audience would get a new car… The famous, ‘You get a car and you get a car and you get a car….”

          Except… Bees….

          It’s an internet thing. I spend too much time on LOLcats.

      • ChicagoNativeSon

        First, where do bees live?

        Second, here’s the rules. They’re very strict. Kind of THE CODE for blogging:

        1. When Foley states something that you disagree with, call him out as a drunk, past prime, company-line-repeating parrot. Hitz!

        2. When Foley states something that you agree with, use it as supporting evidence to support your bias and to Foley’s hockey genius.

        Also, did you know that when resources are scarce a bee colony will often invade another hive and steal its already fabricated material?

        • laaarmer

          I don’t understand the shit with Seabrook. If you micro watch any player, including the bast players – like Crosby, Parise, Toews, Keith, they all do stupid shit. It’s what the other team is trying to make you do.
          Anybody comment on the Keith boner with the shot from the point the he fumbled massively? No, because it was Seabrook that was there to help, just like he is supposed to. It goes both ways and I cannot let people have it both ways. Fuckers.

          • 10thMountainFire

            /Curmudgeon’d

          • laaarmer

            Yep.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Hossa doesn’t do stupid things. Ever.

          • Bullitt315

            He signed with scum.

          • 10thMountainFire

            It’s only a mistake if you don’t learn from it. Signed with us. Problem solved, problem stays solved.

            /Cup’d

          • laaarmer

            Why was that stupid? They made the SCF.

          • Bullitt315

            Because Detroit. You’re not actually expecting a rational argument here are you?

          • laaarmer

            Back then, it was as good a place as there was for the hockey.
            To stay on topic, my Wings “friends” have a bee up their ass regarding letting Hossa get away to sign Franzen.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            It’s easier not to do stupid shit.

            /cliff’d

        • 10thMountainFire

          Hive mind reference. CNS wins the internets.

        • Paul the Fossil

          The idea of deploying a Foley comment as justification for or against any opinion about hockey…! Heh. That’s just not something that would ever occur to me anymore.

          My code for a while now has been that when the Hawks are not on a national feed and I’m not there in person I watch on mute so that the useless noise doesn’t distract me from the game. Same reason I stopped reading newspaper sports sections some years back. (In Foley’s case this sometimes makes me sad because I can remember how good he once was, but nostalgia stopped trumping that current signal/noise ratio a couple of years ago.)

    • Beans
    • laaarmer

      Crawford bailed him out alright.

    • amontesawesome

      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. oh man.

      The good news is that as far as irrational hockey opinions go, this one has zoomed past annoying and all the way to hysterical for me. If/when the Hawks lose in the playoffs at least I’ll be able to look forward to all the way Seabrook is to blame.

    • putmeinthemadhouse

      So do we get a bag of pucks for seabrook or save r
      the other team troule and just buy him out?

    • The Doctor
  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    I wish Ray Kramer would just play “Ride of the Valkries” whenever Hoss heads down for that (shootout move). – Hockeenight.

    I love the sound of a slap shot in the shoot out. Sounds like… victory.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Pooped out?

  • zacked

    Here’s a dumb question, but can someone explain to me what’s going on with Chara’s capgeek page? It shows his cap hit as $6.9, but then dropping to $4 in the last year. I thought a cap hit was by definition the same each year of a contract. Is that just an error?

    • lizmcneill
      • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

        Thanks, first I’d heard of this!

      • zacked

        Oooh yeah, thanks. Forgot about that rule, or more accurately, I thought they got rid of it when they instituted recapture.

    • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

      Has to be an error. I think.

  • Paul the Fossil

    Whoa, sounds like Gillis thinks he’s no longer got anything to lose:
    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Vancouver+Canucks+style+blame+team/9696073/story.html

    And while it’s still unlikely wouldn’t it be loverly if the Flyers could bomb back out of their playoff spot? The Canucks _and_ Leafs _and_ Flyers all heading for the links in mid-April = joy.
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Fading-Flyers-need-to-regroup-.html

    • jordyhawk

      I think Torts and MG are each owed $8 million on their contracts, which isn’t much compared with some of the bad player contracts (e.g. Clarkson) and there are no cap implications. Firing MG would be easiest because he has been around longer. Firing Torts maybe a bit harder because owner would have to swallow it after just hiring him. Let’s hope they both stay and extend David Booth!

      • 10thMountainFire

        Tortorella for $8 million more. Haha

        Vancouver is going to have to start asking Philadelphia to print them some money.

      • guest

        Yeah, but the ownership also just started paying for LUU to play in florida. I don’t feel like they’re in a position to be spending that much more over and above the salary cap to pay two coaches or two GMs (one of which is working for someone else), especially since there won’t be playoff ticket money coming in this year (hahaha).

        They made their own bed here by hiring a coach whose philosophy was polar opposite to their GM’s, which is what makes it so delightful.

        • Bullitt315

          This is just GMMG saying “Torts wasn’t my idea” so he can find a job somewhere else. That owner seems like a spaz.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Or a brain stem…

        • jordyhawk

          They are paying $800k per year for Lu through 2022, so about $6.4 million.

          • Bullitt315

            I’d figure out the present value of that if it wasn’t no math friday

  • VerStig

    I love how people found a way to have a stats discussion today with no math in it.

    • laaarmer

      I’m 50/50 on this

  • laaarmer

    No math Friday?
    My line gives up 15 shots during a game, but they are all from the point or 1/2 boards.
    My line also scores 3 goals in 7 shots all from the “house”
    My lines dick number sucks, but who gives a shit?

    • ChicagoNativeSon

      Pints and shots is all I got out of that.

      Works for me.

      • laaarmer

        how bout a Fresca?