Let’s All Take A Breath… Including Me

I absolutely promise we’ll get back to player previews later this afternoon. Right after I try out the demo of PES ’16. But this feels like a good time to try and maybe attempt to take some of the heat out of all this that’s been building. And some of it is certainly my fault and unnecessary. This is always going to be a passionate subject. There are a lot of raw nerves exposed for a lot of people on this. We can’t remove all of the emotion, nor should we. But as someone who likes to think of himself as somewhat reasonable, I really shouldn’t let trolls bait me into a pure rage or tweet or write things without trying to carefully parse out what it is I really want to say (so no more tweeting and drinking for ol’ Shmuel, at least not about this. Which basically means no tweeting). That doesn’t mean there aren’t times when anger and rage are called for, because there are. I can just pick my spots a little better.

I understand that basically at the moment, there are two warring camps. And on something like this, it’s damn near impossible to find middle ground (and probably not at all). What comes next isn’t addressed to the over-creatined, fanboy, fratboy jerkoffs with their backwards white hats spewing filth from just about every pore. I don’t care what they think and never will, and nor should anyone else. But there is a strong group not near the fringes but near the middle that I and we have sometimes lumped in with that lunatic fringe (no, not Dean Ambrose). Perhaps that’s not totally fair. While I’m not here to “convert” anyone, I think it’s possible to build more understanding between us. Because believe it or not, on some level I do understand where you’re coming from. Keep reading, I’ll explain.

There are two facets to this, and while they’re closely linked each presents its own issues and problems. One is how we view the investigation, and the other is the feeling of Kane being in training camp. I’ll take them in that order. Again, they’re linked, but don’t both share the exact same problems for people.

First, the investigation and cries we’ve heard about “how we all have to wait for the facts.” This is probably just going to echo my first post on all of this way back in August, but maybe I can clean up the language a bit more.

I think that some people who say that, perhaps even most, are actually trying to come from a good place. I know that sounds strange, but I know that because it was my very first reaction to all this too. I first saw the news breaking on Twitter, headed to the gym to try and figure out what I was going to write here about it, and that’s what I thought in the first few moments. Which is why I’m grateful that McClure was first into the breach, because he saved me from writing something I would have totally regretted, would probably still be trying to walk back, and it also put me on the path that I believe is right within minutes of my first instinct of trying to step back from it all.

That doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten where that feeling came from. And I know it wasn’t from a victim-shaming, rape-apologist place. That’s not me. I simply didn’t want to believe it. And I’m guessing if you’re on that side of this and a reasonable person, you don’t either. We don’t want our escape to come crashing down with such ugliness. It’s when you cling to this disbelief too hard that you’re more likely to turn into some simply wrong and hurtful tactics to protect it.

But here’s the real problem with the “wait for the facts” way. And if I’m lucky the metaphor I’m about to attempt will come off, at best, as inartful. It’s not that much different from the #AllLivesMatter retort to #BlackLivesMatter. And I don’t mean right wing pundits and nutjobs who use it to dismiss racism and police brutality in this country altogether. That’s Fox News bullshit (and yes, I think Fox News is bullshit. If you have a problem with that, it’s probably best you leave now). But when I first started seeing the #AllLivesMatter tag or whatever, at least some of it was coming from people who wanted to express that everyone should get equal treatment under the law (and I fully admit that I may have seen this wrong about a year ago and it’s always been a right wing attempt to shove racism and police brutality under the rug, in which case go ahead and call me a moron). And that’s a lovely thought, but what it does is basically whitewashes the actual problem and hurts the overall movement. This isn’t a vacuum.

To me, it’s the same here. You may think you’re taking a neutral stand and not adding heat to the debate by stepping back from it, but because of what we know is stacked against any person who accuses another of rape, you’re essentially adding to that deck in another way. It’s swung too far against for us not to have to try and swing it aggressively the other way to just even it out. And I’m not asking you to already dress Kane out in orange. But if it were a point spread, instead of looking at it as a pick’em, maybe look at it as a +1 or +2.

That doesn’t mean there probably weren’t times I jumped in too early, if you’ll excuse me piling up the negatives. I wrote a post about a possible settlement, and then it came out that there was no settlement (although this all is starting to sound a little like the trade deadline or draft day where no one wants to admit their source might be wrong so their source says your source is wrong). I wrote a post after yesterday’s news conference and then the various PDs claimed that they had all the evidence sealed. To be fair, it doesn’t seem like anyone has any idea what’s going on with that one.

But we do have one fact that’s not up for debate: This woman went to the hospital and the police that very night. That’s a very tough thing to do, and a lot of victims never get to that point, much less mere hours after an impossibly traumatic experience. To me, that earns her the benefit of the doubt. Because what has Kane done to earn it? Score a lot of goals? Ask yourself, if he were accused of beating the shit out of guy outside of a bar, where would you be? If he was being investigated for murder, what would you think? Innocent until proven guilty is for court. Out here? Knowing what an impossible path it is for anyone accusing an athlete or celebrity of rape? It should almost be the opposite, no matter what that sounds like or make you feel.

Ok, so now to him at camp. It’s a problem for more or different reasons than above, and they’re not necessarily to do with him exactly or exclusively. And please, don’t give me the “He hasn’t been charged!” line. He hasn’t been cleared either, and there’s an undeniable cloud over him. In fact, he’s the only player in the NHL currently with this cloud over him. He’s obviously something of a problem for the NHL’s image, because he wasn’t at their media tour or their World Cup unveiling. Don’t tell me about what would happen at your job, because you’re not a public figure.

Think about that press conference, for just a moment. Think about him taking the ice to a standing ovation. Just for one moment, think about what that makes female fans feel like. Just for a moment. And if you can’t figure it out, they’re screaming it from every direction. Here, or here, or here. Dismiss those as out of towners if you want, though I don’t know why that would matter, but there’s this. And this. And that’s not even close to all that’s out there that is expressing the outrage that women feel right now.

That post from HabsEyesOnThe Prize mentions that 45% of Hawks fans are women. I don’t quite know how they get that exact figure, but I know from my own eyes that women are a massively growing section of the fanbase. I know it because I’ve stood outside the United Center basically before every home game for seven seasons now. When I first started, I hardly saw women at all. The past couple seasons, I see them there a lot. The difference in numbers is huge, whatever the actual figure is.

But let’s just take that 45% number for an experiment. And it’s been studied that 1 in five women will suffer a sexual assault. Maybe that’s not spot on but let’s use it for this. So that means that 8% of Hawks fans have suffered a sexual assault? It also means that a good deal more of us know someone who has survived a sexual assault. And that ovation, that press conference, that touting of your accomplishments during that presser, playing “I Fought The Law” during pregame warmups (yes, not intentional, but come on) is a thumb in the nose to all of us. It’s a middle finger.

And why is it worth it? To satisfy a section of the fandom that’s going to be there anyway? To keep a player who is going to score a lot of goals? Is that it? Because you read those posts, and a lot of those fans are leaving and not coming back. Maybe it’s not enough to matter to the Hawks, but it should. Would this be how they’ve handled a 4th liner under this scope? Hockey accomplishments/contributions shouldn’t matter in this.

Secondly, the Hawks provided Kane their bullhorn and their platform to proclaim his innocence (or mangle it as he did). What does she get? Whose bullhorn does she get to use? You know what she gets? She gets the police leaking the contents of her underwear to a ravenous press (if it was even her underwear). Think about that for a second. Would you want the contents of your underwear in public? The mere condition of mine would be embarrassing enough (and from what I’m hearing at the moment she’s now getting her name and picture plastered all over Buffalo, which is so disgusting I’m going to puke up a lung). A police that’s supposed to protect her is doing that.

Again, I don’t expect to convert anyone here. But I’m hoping that it can make how all of us feel clearer to those who don’t.

 

 

  • Jay Fielder

    One of the things from yesterday’s press conference called by the victim’s lawyer that really has me reeling is the fact that he’s showing this rape kit bag with the victim’s name and birthday to cameras broadcasting all over US and Canada. Now, I’m no lawyer, but does that seem logical? If she’s pissed, she should be furious with her own lawyer’s lack of responsibility with her name.

    • Bob in EP

      The press conference raised 2 questions for me:

      1. Why did they choose to hold a press conference instead of going to the DA first?
      2. Why show the name?

      Based on my own experience, I believe that both acts were intentional but I will withhold speculation as to why.

      • ItalianBeef

        I think the first act was intentional but I can’t think of any good reason for the second act to be anything other than a major screw-up.

        • Bob in EP

          I can’t think of a good reason why the attorney would make that information public either. But as someone who has made a 30 year career of working with evidence in the legal field, I have a hard time believing that it was inadvertent. It’s one of those “you had one job” situations.

          • Cville Indian

            It’s absolutely bonkers. I’m surprised more people aren’t bringing it up.

          • Jim

            I think he just screwed up in a huge way. He may be a big fish in Buffalo, but he got out of his depth.

      • David Paul

        Why the PC instead of investigating for five minutes to discover it was a hoax? Because he was likely in on it. He got what he wanted (at first, anyway), when the local and national media descended upon Kane, demanding his suspension.

        Suddenly, the evidence which fully exhonerated Kane from her charges (“he followed me into a room, overpowered me, and raped me”) was cast into a sea of conspiracy and doubt, the likes of which you can’t imagine happening on the most far fetched Law & Order re-run.

        Then the DA busted him and he quickly recanted. The worst part of this is that they’re apparently using the mom as the “fall guy” so Eoannou can continue his multi-million dollar practice instead of being disbarred.

        • Bob in EP

          It was a scheme hatched by a simpleton who had no idea of how many moving parts would need to be controlled to support the lie. Eoannou didn’t build a multi-million dollar practice by doing stupid shit that could easily be verified as untrue.

          • David Paul

            So he was duped by a simpleton?

          • Bob in EP

            His job as a lawyer is to present the information as his client has presented it to him. It would hardly be the first time that a client ignored the lawyers advice. Have you ever hired a lawyer?

          • David Paul

            The DA just stated that they don’t use bags for rape kits and never have. How would Eoannou not know this when he waved around the bag and said it was the rape kit evidence bag? It also came out that the plastic bag holding the paper bag came from *his* office. He admitted it to the DA.

  • “But we do have one fact that’s not up for debate: This woman went to the hospital and the police that very night. That’s a very tough thing to do, and a lot of victims never get to that point, much less mere hours after an impossibly traumatic experience. To me, that earns her the benefit of the doubt. Because what has Kane done to earn it? Score a lot of goals? Ask yourself, if he were accused of beating the shit out of guy outside of a bar, where would you be? If he was being investigated for murder, what would you think? Innocent until proven guilty is for court. Out here? Knowing what an impossible path it is for anyone accusing an athlete or celebrity of rape? It should almost be the opposite, no matter what that sounds like or make you feel.”

    This is where you lose me. I understand and agree with your concerns for the social and legal pressures faced by any alleged rape victim, and the effect of these pressures of discouraging victims to report these types of crimes. That’s truly awful, and the cretins that lurk in the dark corners of the Internet and elsewhere who shame and harass these women should be ridiculed without mercy. As far as the legal disparities, I’d love to hear of ways to remediate them to ensure a more equal legal footing, but I’m unclear on what your grievances are, exactly.

    But instead of suggesting possible solutions to these pressures, you’re essentially throwing up your hands and arguing that these genuine inequalities can only be redressed by presuming the guilt of the accused party, which is antithetical to one of the most fundamental tenets of (small-L) liberal ideology and American law. Or, in your words, “It’s swung too far against for us not to have to try and swing it aggressively the other way to just even it out.” While I understand the anger and frustration underpinning this sentiment, it’s irresponsible and short-sighted, and likely only to result in more entrenched opposition to your (again, legitimate) concerns.

    On a related note, the insinuation (implicit or explicit) that anybody who disagrees with this sentiment either doesn’t care about or actively encourages rape or the “rape culture” is both a false dichotomy and an ad hominen attack on those who share your concern for this legitimate cultural and legal issue, but don’t agree with your preferred method of responding to it. You allude to it above, but people would be much more receptive to your message if you didn’t immediately label their opinions as wrongthink and dismiss them entirely.

    Of course, that’s just, like, my opinion, man.

    • Say what again

      Well said. And I would like to add that women, be they fans or not, are not a monolithic group programmed to think one way. The female fans I know, both in my family and not, do not share your (Sam’s) views on this subject.

    • Patorioto

      “the insinuation (implicit or explicit) that anybody who disagrees with this sentiment either doesn’t care about or actively encourages rape or the “rape culture” is both a false dichotomy and an ad hominen attack ”

      This kind of attitude is what has caused me to just keep my mouth shut almost entirely on the subject. There’s a sentiment on Hawks Twitter that if you don’t 100% accept the viewpoints of a few of the more popular accounts, you’re a scumbag piece of garbage who perpetuates rape culture. Guys like Baffoe and Bernsetein are the same. You either 100% agree with whatever they deem is the correct moral stance or go in the dumpster.

      For the record, I actually lean more a little more toward their feelings on the subject, but the environment is so harsh I don’t really even want to say a word about it.

      • David Paul

        Don’t let them bully you into silence, though. That’s the whole point of shouting you down and calling you a “rape supporter”. If we all clam up and cower, they win.

    • Jane Doe

      “Reiben, pay attention. Now, this is the way to gripe. Continue, Jackson…..”

      • Sopel the catfish

        Well, what I mean by that, sir, is… if you was to put me and this here sniper rifle anywhere up to and including one mile of Adolf Hitler with a clear line of sight, sir… pack your bags, fellas, war’s over. Amen.

    • kc

      Thank you, Dan. As a former season ticket holder (now out of state), and a woman who sits in the “wait and see” camp, you couldn’t be more dead on.

      To the CI- presuming guilt in an attempt to make up for the difficulties women face in these kind of matters not only doesn’t help, but it isn’t wanted. I can understand and even appreciate the sentiment behind it, but it just doesn’t work that way, so please don’t condemn anyone on my behalf. If you feel a certain way, that is your opinion, just own up to it. For the record I’m not giving either one of them the benefit of the doubt, I have no idea what happened, and I never will.

      After the awkward (but how could it not be) pre-camp presser, this female fan felt that her hockey team knew enough to support its player, otherwise they probably would have handled it differently.

      Just my 2 female fan cents. But maybe it doesn’t count since I’m an old fan, not part of the massively growing section.

      • Shawn Wilson

        Don’t condemn anyone on my behalf either – Another Female Fan

    • Skags

      Very well said.

    • David Paul

      And if she showed signs of forcible rape and could identify the assailant, he would have been arrested the next day. Like Kobe Byrant was.

      • guest

        Probably not the best possible example, as there were no “signs of forcible rape” in that case and it never even went to trial, much less a conviction. The whole saga honestly reminds me a lot of this one, with the exception that if a woman walks into a police station and says “that black guy raped me,” you bet your ass he’s in a cell immediately.

        • David Paul

          She was bleeding “down there” and his shirt had her blood on it. He also said they had sex. Nothing like the Kane case.

  • AdamGertz

    I’m assuming (without indulging my narcissism too deeply) as the top comment from yesterday’s post with exactly this message that this is as at least somewhat directed towards me.

    I agree with you that there are two warring camps, Kane’s defense and the prosecution/the accused. However, we the public are not in the war; we are not combatants. We absolutely should not be adding fuel to the fire. I will not tell someone that can’t hold their own convictions but there is also no reason why we, as the ignorant public, should hold the words of person over those of another. It is not our job to advocate for either side, that is what police and district attorneys and defense lawyers are for. Refusing to take sides and let evidence present itself isn’t stacking the cards, it’s refusing the play game.

    Just because that person had to climb a hill to have their words heard does not make them more valid. It’s not as though the police pushed her aside or someone from the organization tried to quiet her. Her claim has been acknowledged and investigated and now we have to wait for the evidence to reveal itself. If someone were accusing you of this crime, you would hope to be given the benefit of the doubt, and I don’t see why it should be any different for anyone else without a history of being sexually vioilent. You can try to pass off Kane’s history of one time punching a cab driver, getting drunk in Madison or internet forum rumors of him being aggressive with women as a strong enough reason to believe he committed an act as heinous as this, but I just can’t.

    I will reiterate, I hope that if he is guilty, he faces the maximum penalty possible and that every mouthbreathing brotard who has blindly claimed his innocence walks with their roided-out tail between legs.

    • One quibble: I agree that the accuser’s words are not “more valid” than the accused, but we as a society should endeavor to remove the need for the accuser to “climb a hill” to have their words heard in the first place.

      • AdamGertz

        I agree with you completely, and I think versus where we were even 10 years ago, we’ve made small but meaningful steps in this regard. I think that my point of the public trying their best to remain neutral would be another step in that process. Unfortunately, especially in the age of #socialmedia, everyone has a voice, and those who speak loudest tend to have the worst opinions.

        • Black JEM

          Yes, but even Sam falls for the one in five or one in four canard about sexual assault. The definition of sexual assault in those surveys – looking at a woman, no hoots or hollers even – counts. They’re garbage. And if you use that as a basis to form your world view – you are wrong. FOX News is clown shoes – but so is CNN and even more so is MSNBC. They all give us a scratch to rile us up and never give us the full story. I can’t remember the last time I watched any TV newscast. They are produced to incite – rather than inform. If I were czar – scary thought – TV news would be illegal.

          We all have our biases and our filters. How about everyone go take a look at the FBI’s national crime statistics and then we can have a reasoned conversation. Because we all know that what is reported by those with a pro victim filter is no where near what the feds report. I get that women get caught in a very emotional violation of themselves that is difficult and would suppress at some level reporting of the crime. But when I look at the increasing level of high profile false reports – it bothers me to assume guilt before we know anything of detail. And I am increasingly unwilling to accept the first stories. We also know that all these young women – probably recent college grads actually spent time on campus where according to the FBI they had an even lesser chance of experiencing sexual assault than the general population. So let’s tone down the level of excitement regarding sexual assault. It happens, it’s cruddy, it happens surprisingly to men too – as well as people in gay relationships. It’s assault. It’s power applied. To this woman’s credit she went to the hospital that morning after – in fact it was partly that, that made me initially think there might be something to this.

          Accepting her right to make a complaint, and his right to refute it seems to me the most basic of requirements. Someone’s belief is no more valid than mine (I’m in the I don’t know camp – but beginning to lean in Kane’s favor after reports of the DNA results as well as her attorney’s terrible presser, done I’d guess to just keep the hope of a civil suit and his fee, alive.)

          As to camp, the press conference was uncomfortable but obviously the Hawks felt their guy would be vindicated or the NHLPA said we will grieve the hell out of it if you try and suspend him. From Kane’s defense, he needs to be at camp to not let anyone think he is acting like he may be guilty. I’m sure his attorney told him you need to go to camp.

          If he had made a statement and then left and if the Hawks just said no comment, maybe it would have been better. I can accept that argument, I still think you needed to get it out of the way, but I get the other argument.

          I appreciate your attempt to ratchet down the tenor of this debate here. I disagree with you pretty strongly on that which paints your worldview, and actually do not think the facts support them. I fear that it supports the mob – and retribution – not fair punishment for crimes proven to be committed. That scares me more than anything.

          Is Kane silly for getting himself mixed up in all of this? My goodness yes. In this culture, that accepts any forward action from a man towards a woman that doesn’t have a signed confession of agreement with suspicion (my understanding there is now an app to record this agreement), it is silly on just a personal level for him to have gotten mixed up with this woman and whoever else was there. That is regardless of his guilt or innocence in this charge.

          • guest

            This all reminds me of a quote the partner at a firm I worked at liked to repeat ad nauseum: “If the facts are on your side, pound the facts. If the law is on your side, pound the law. If neither are, then pound the table.”

            The thing is, there are two people people in the world who know whose side the law or the facts are on, and maybe a handful others who have some idea (who also are paid very handsomely to obfuscate it). The rest of us are vigorously pounding our tables. You can read whatever tea leaves you want into “sources say” and “the hawks wouldn’t have him here if they didn’t know something we don’t know,” but in reality it’s all just girding our loins and gearing up for round fifty billion of the culture war.

            For the record, I firmly will wait on my judgement of Kane as a rapist until our beautiful, terribly flawed justice system lurches to a conclusion. What won’t wait is the culture war. My own salvos in that great conflict are as such:

            So you write off studies about unreported sexual assaults as “garbage,” and while you claim to respect the difficulty in coming forward with an accusation, you’re still willing to take reported statistics directly at face value. Whaaa? You have a weird sentence where you state that “we know that all” of these young women “probably” are recent college graduates, and colleges are safer than an average of elsewhere (FBI-statistically), so… what? You then, after rigorous adherence to statistics earlier, cite “the increasing level of high profile false reports” without any connection to statistical reality at all. Whaaaaa? Reports are “high profile” based, in many ways, on the whims of the TV news you despise–why would you rely on a category they define? I agree wholeheartedly that if every time someone mentioned “duke lacrosse” (as if it were a magic spell that made rape disappear) counted as a separate false accusation, that false accusations now drastically outnumber real assaults. Unfortunately, we live in a world without magic, and that case is a sample size of exactly one.

            While individual studies (especially the ones that reach for shockingly high numbers) can be flawed, I don’t think the correct response is to fall completely back on the numbers of people who have gone through with going to the police. Victim-blaming and character assassination is still very powerful in our culture, especially if the man has any power or influence in the local community. The very day the accusations surfaced, you have Kane’s nightclub owner buddy giving leading statements. Today, you can find numerous posts on the interwebs which know with 100% certainty (despite not even knowing her name!) that the woman accusing Kane is a loose, drunk, drug-abusing slut who was “hanging on to him all night” and definitely consented (as much as such a creature can consent) to whatever, then woke up the next morning wickedly intent on extracting money from the innocent, noble hockey player. They “know” this without knowing a single thing about her; any further details about her life can easily be shuffled into this narrative. It is powerful and it is common, and someone who just has gone through one of the worst experiences a person can (and probably doesn’t feel too great about themselves) JUST MIGHT not want to be the star of that narrative. Maybe.

            Yes, everyone, man or woman, straight or not, is capable of sexual assault on anyone else. One of the big problems we have as a society is an unwillingness to hear out male victims of rape because “pssh, of course he wanted it,” or the belief that he has become less of a man by becoming a victim and shaming him. This is why many of those rapes are unfortunately unreported, but surprised you’re willing to acknowledge their existence, since the FBI statistics say men are extremely unlikely to be raped. Not really sure what this red herring has to do with the rest of your post, either.

            I think “silly” is a hilariously poor choice of word to use in any connection to this.

  • D_Smith

    Before we burn Kane at the stake we need to keep a couple of things in mind.

    #1 there hasn’t been any proof yet whatsoever other than her word that any sexual assault occurred. It doesn’t mean we dismiss the accusations entirely since they are incredibly severe, but any dna below the waist will be a start, or injuries consistent with a rape. I also don’t generally think 1 quarter size bruise qualifies as all the proof needed for a jury conviction either, since pretty much anyone at any given time has 1 or 2+ of those just from bumping something.

    #2 there is a lot of incentive for a person to make a false claim against someone rich and/or famous. Monetary settlement, blackmail, 15 minutes of fame, hoping for a book deal, etc. Not victim attacking…just saying this isn’t a normal situation and there is definitely incentive for the accusser to make a false claim.

    The other thing in this just from a purely Blackhawks standpoint, is that this is an organization that fired Susannah Collins for virtually nothing. She did nothing illegal and was fired for old silly PG-13 Youtube videos. It’s an interesting dynamic in 2 ways. Purely as a hockey fan it worries me that even if he is completely innocent that he’ll be dumped for next to nothing just to remove any cloud of suspicion. And on the other hand if he is even partially guilty, I hope the Blackhawks response is equal to the crime especially given the harsh treatment Collins got. If the uber-high moral road (including moral questions beyond just illegal actions) is the Blackhawk’s policy than that’s the stance that should apply to players and males too.

    • ZigZags82

      Good response to both ends.

    • jhb

      I believe Susannah Collins was employed by CSN Chicago, not the Blackhawks.

      • You are correct I believe. But I think the most folks assumed that the Blackhawks were the primary influence on CSN to have her removed. IRC it was a minor slip up (said sex instead of six or something silly like that) before a playoff game and next thing you know she was gone.

      • Jane Doe

        Which is 20% owned by……..wait for it…the Chicago Blackhawks.

        • jhb

          I wasn’t aware that the Chicago area teams owned % of CSN. Her firing was ridiculous.

          • Jane Doe

            I believe Reinsdorf, Ricketts and Wirtz all own a stake, along with Comcast.

    • ExOnMS

      Wow. Did not even think about that whole Susannah Collins situation until I read this. You’re completely right, if I were her and I saw the front office sitting up on the podium with him, after being accused of rape…my remote would have been through the TV.

      • Black JEM

        I’m guessing they used that as an excuse for other things we never knew were going on.

    • David Paul

      Susannah Collins doesn’t mean anything to the organization, let alone being remotely close to what Kane means. You think they’ll dump Kane after he is fully exhonerated? They’ll stand by him, as they did at the presser, and as they should. He was the victim here.

      • Jim

        They’ll stand by him mostly because he’s a helluva hockey player, and they need him on the PP.

  • Bobby Otter

    The Blackhawks, as an organization, have handled this so poorly, over the last week or two especially, that I couldn’t be more disappointed in them. The organization has been far too tone deaf, their hubris is off putting, and their public support of Kane baffling because… well it’s pretty obvious. All in all, more than anything/anyone else, the Hawks actions, imo, managed to fuel a civil war inside the fan base over the last few weeks. And a season that was always going to feel ‘off’ now is on the verge of feeling icky. And who wants to feel icky?

    • mrburney

      What’s the over/under on the amount of times Kaner has R’d women? 17? It’s a three year clock; every three years, they can’t hide the massive douche-fountain that is that balding, mulleted, extremely talented dwarf – Buffalo, Madison, Buffalo. They should seriously not let him into the state of Wisconsin in 2018.

      • Sopel the catfish

        wut

        • Things were going so well here until this.

          • Sopel the catfish

            I want to know what brand of paint thinner he uses, it must be delicious

          • WookRN

            You may have to cut it with SunnyD

          • Joe DeTolve

            Sigh…This was going so well.

      • Jon

        Such a rational post, I hope they take your advice.

        Lucky for Kane, Wisconsin doesn’t have an NHL team so I guess nobody would really give a fuck. Idiot.

      • GoldenJet

        Way to bring the full derp!

    • ItalianBeef

      My feeling during the presser was that it was very clearly a public backing of Kane & his proclamation of innocence. To me, if they really do believe he’s innocent, there’s nothing baffling about this. To be sure, it’s certainly laying a wager on how things are going to turn out, and a very pricey wager at that – but for everything I’ve read of McDonough & the Hawks brass, I’m inclined to believe that they have performed their due diligence & know a lot more about what’s going on than we do. That certainly doesn’t go to say that we should take their word for it but their actions have certainly been the actions of an organization that is very sure that this investigation & this case are going to be over very soon and with a very favorable result. Just my two cents.

      • Bobby Otter

        You’re putting a lot of faith in a organization that i) was the laughing stock of the sports world ten years ago—I know things have changed but… ii) the Hawks have gigantic economic reasons to make you believe that everything is a-okay.

        And what if Kane isn’t innocent?

        • ItalianBeef

          I didn’t say that you or I should take the Hawks word for this and as far as what happens if Kane isn’t innocent, again, I said this is a very pricey wager on their part.
          I was just simply sharing my observations on the press conference.

        • David Paul

          They talked to his attorneys before allowing him at camp. Those attorneys had the DNA results proving his innocence.

          • Bobby Otter

            Again: What if Kane isn’t innocent?

            We, the public, know nothing. The Blackhawks taking Kane or his lawyer at their word is foolish. So I go back to my point: The Hawks organization has handled this poorly, and no matter how it turns out, they look bad.

          • David Paul

            Why are we doing laps on this? Do you not understand that the DNA evidence directly refutes her claim that Kane raped her? Of are you suggesting he was wearing a completely sealed body suit condom?

          • Bobby Otter

            1) We don’t know the facts. 2) We don’t know if this point is true. 3) Assuming it is true is foolish. 4) It doesn’t prove Kane’s innocence. 5) It has nothing to do with the Blackhawks as an organization. So I have no clue why you’re even bringing it up again and again.

            You’re basing your opinion on hearsay.

  • WookRN

    I would like to again thank the commenters here from keeping this from being the brush fire Fels feared when he shut down the comments.

    That said…..my two cents. I’m one of the “let’s wait for the facts” people. Still am. I think the BlackLives/ all lives matter analogy is pretty abrasive, and while I respect your opinion, I think that’s completely out in left field. I think the game spread is probably a little closer to reason.

    And regarding “wait for the facts” people, all the female fans I know are in this camp, including two former season ticket holders (no point in keeping season tickets when you live in Iowa.) So, while I can only speak from the people I know, all the hockey people (Hawks fans, Wings fans, Avs fans, Blues fans) I’ve talked to are the middle group. No shaming, no Bros. Just waiting.

    • Black JEM

      Yeah – I would accept the blacklives matters thing better if we hadn’t had the Ferguson, Mo tragedy where the hip culture, hands up don’t shoot crowd hadn’t been absolutely wrong. It has spurred a backlash, as did the Baltimore situation.

      Police use of excessive force is a real concern – of course the Ferguson response from the rabble-rousers has just made it open season on cops, and their response has been one of increased nerves which won’t help the underlying causes at all.

  • ItalianBeef

    Great post. I think it’s great to see that there’s been some more thought & a bit of a course correction in your approach to this case as well as the readers. Also, points on the Dean Ambrose reference.
    I see a lot of the same kind of stupidity that you’re referencing in my FB feed – alarmingly enough, a fair amount of it is coming from Hawks fans of the female variety. At any rate, I don’t like the spewing of filth & hatred anymore than you do, no matter who it’s coming from.
    That said, I think the readership response here has been pretty reasonable and you seem to allude to as much in your post – and this is what brings me to my point, because I’m in the camp who would like to see things play out before we’re labeling anybody a rapist or a liar.
    I remember one of the first pieces linked here during all of this was from a Chicago writer whose name & outlet I can’t recall right now but the gist of it was that you/we do not know Patrick Kane, that he is not our friend and probably doesn’t care one lick for any of us. And that’s a pretty reasonable take. What I think is just as reasonable a take is that – despite the courage it took this woman to make this accusation & follow through with the testing protocols – I don’t know her either. She is not my friend nor does likely have a care in the world for you or I. That doesn’t mean I have anything at all against her but what it does mean is that I’m not taking her allegation or this allegation any more seriously than I would the next. If I’m going to support sending any individual away to prison & destroy their life in the process, I want to know that they did the crime, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I want proof. I don’t think this makes me a rape apologist. In a perfect world, we would be able to skip all of this and flush out the facts in any case, free of controversy & conscience – but we don’t live in that perfect world. I’m very aware of what problems exist in this world – while I certainly can’t lay claim to knowing what the proper solutions to those problems are, I do know the wrong fixes when I see them and for that reason alone, I can’t & won’t ever support the notion that we should view anyone as ‘likely guilty’ or ‘very suspect’ just based solely on the seriousness of the accusation levied against them.

    • Lionel Hutz

      That was Tim Baffoe from WSCR.

      • ItalianBeef

        Correct. Thank you!

        • jrzy78 .

          Sadly in this case, I think everybody loses.

          • ItalianBeef

            Agreed.

          • David Paul

            Yeah, that’s a popular saying today from people who were ready to lynch Kane. Kane wins, as do other victims of false rape accusations. Justice wins.

  • Jim

    I think what skews the equation here is that Kane is arguably the best RW in the game, and central to winning any more cups.

    Any lesser player and the decision would be easy to somehow make him go away until the courts or the DA decide this matter. Sounds crass, but it is what it is, and a lot of other people’s livelihoods are tied to Kane

    • Black JEM

      And the problem is, if the allegation was the same, it would be an injustice to that player.

      I think a more proper argument would be that if this wasn’t Patrick Kane they never would have put up with the party boy garbage from his past. So he wouldn’t have been with the Hawks when this thing happened.

  • One thing that came to mind as to why in the world the Blackhawks would allow Kane to be at camp was the fact that both sides the accuser and Kane were notified of the rape kit results a few weeks ago.

    From the tribune and Kane’s lawyer:

    “The evidence technician who works for the county tested it. He said there was no Patrick Kane and that’s all I needed to know,” Cambria said. “We were told other DNA was found, but none of it was from Patrick.”

    Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/ct-patrick-kane-news-conference-20150923-story.html

    So if you’re trying to determine what to do and you have this information in hand you could conceivably make the jump that he’s innocent.

    Regardless, the Blackhawks have handled this incredibly poorly. I have so many conflicted feelings about the whole situation that I’m still trying to process it. The hardest part is wanting a black and white answer and knowing that all you’re likely to see is some shade of gray. If he’s innocent you can go back to cheering for the Hawks. If he’s guilty you can wash your hands of Patrick Kane and never look back. But the middle ground doesn’t seem to let you do either.

    • David Paul

      There is no middle ground after the DNA results were leaked.

  • Feenux

    I agree that Kane shouldn’t be at camp right now. As Sam said, he is a public figure. His image has been used to market and brand the Hawks for the last seven or eight years now. I’ve read a lot of posts about how you should be allowed to go to work until you’re charged with a crime, and in some respects that can be true. But you better believe that there are corporations out there that will tell you to take paid leave if allegation like this were hanging over your head. Any business or corporate entity that answers to investors or depends on clients for income will do whatever it can to preserve its image.
    I have always said that if I met Bobby Hull, I don’t think I could bring myself to shake his hand. Given how McD constantly has his half drunken image plastered on the UC scoreboard every night, and how he has handled this current situation in the worst fashion; I’m not sure I can bring myself to shake his hand either.

  • flahawkfan

    I have to admit that I’m all over the place on this one. I’m a woman. I’ve been a fan of the Hawks for roughly 25 years. I was previously a criminal lawyer on the prosecution side. I guess in some ways I’ve been chicken to speak up because I’ll somehow lose my feminist cred, or somehow be a traitor to my gender, if I say what I’m thinking. I also have a lot of friends who are incredibly passionate about this, and I don’t want to piss them off by disagreeing with them. But here goes, I suppose.

    I have a real problem with that presser the accuser’s attorney held yesterday. It took me hours, including several sleepless ones last night, to formulate exactly why it ticked me off so much, but it finally occurred to me that I simply cannot understand why the attorney’s first inclination was to hold a freaking press conference and wave that evidence bag around in front of the cameras the way he did. I realize there’s a lot of stuff flying about how the PD’s office is in Kane’s pocket and that the accuser mistrusts them. But the instant that evidence bag showed up (allegedly?) at the home of the accuser’s mother, shouldn’t the attorney have immediately gone to the FBI, or even the NY AG, who from what I can tell isn’t in anybody’s pocket? It doesn’t sound like he did that. Instead, there were leaked reports that the DNA evidence appeared to be somewhat favorable to Kane, and then the attorney holds a press conference and furiously waves an evidence bag that appears to have his client’s name on it. I’m not any kind of conspiracy theorist but strictly from a criminal law standpoint, that seems fishy to me. It’s absolutely baffling, in fact.

    As a woman, the idea of rape has terrified me from the time I first heard what it meant. I can’t imagine the feeling of utter powerlessness, horrifying fear, and every other emotion under the sun a rape victim must experience. I get why it takes incredible strength for a victim to come forward and accuse someone who has raped her. But even with all of that, I’m not sure I understand why the accuser in a rape case is to remain anonymous, while the alleged perpetrator is not. Doesn’t the innocent man accused of rape face as much, if not more, of a social stigma — perhaps for life — as a rape victim does? I mean, if Kane is innocent — and I’m not saying he is, because I do not know — he’s still going to have to live with this allegation for the rest of his life. It may not be as terrible for him as it is for a regular guy, but unless he is fully cleared somehow, some people are going to view him as a rapist forever.

    I guess the bottom line is that it seems to me like the way the system works, the accuser is viewed as being the truthful victim, who gets to remain anonymous (unless her attorney puts her name out there), while the accused is viewed as guilty and has to prove a negative. I’m not sure why that’s the case. I know people cite studies indicating that rape victims generally don’t lie, but man, the Duke Lacrosse “victim” lied; Tawana Brawley lied. So why are we so willing to accept that rape accusers don’t lie? Does it all somehow go back to the days when a woman’s “virtue” was her main asset, such that it has to be protected?
    I dunno. I agree completely that McDonough and the Blackhawks totally botched that stupid press conference. And I also agree that Kane should probably stay away from getting sloppy drunk and having women other than his girlfriend over to his house at 3:00 a.m. But I don’t see how the Hawks could have kept him out of camp, or why they should have; and I’m not ready say they should trade him. What if he truly, truly did nothing wrong? Why should someone accusing him of rape have the ability to keep him out of training camp, if he is innocent?
    I’m very sorry for the tome. Just wanted folks to know there are some non-meatheads out here who are trying to be thoughtful, but who disagree with the notion that Kane should have stayed away from camp, etc.

    • Shawn Wilson

      Thank you for your thoughtful response. I, too, am a female, and I couldn’t agree more.

    • HossasPierogi

      Absolutely — the prosecutor should have assembled a coalition of support and presented a credible case. I’m not a lawyer but the whole situation struck me as unprofessional and definitely was a disservice to his client. I saw the press conference primarily as a CYA for the prosecuting attorney.

      • Sopel the catfish

        Do you mean the accuser’s attorney?

        • HossasPierogi

          Yes, I guess technically he’s not a prosecutor yet because Kane hasn’t been changed. Thanks for the correction.

          • ItalianBeef

            The lawyer in question from yesterday’s press conference won’t be a prosecutor at all. He’s a defense lawyer retained by the family of the accuser to help them through this case but with regards to the criminal trial process, he has no standing in this case.

          • cthrek

            He also won’t be the prosecutor even if Kane does get charged. That’ll be the DA.

          • David Paul

            It’s stunning how many people don’t realize this, and frightening at how fast that kind of misinformation spreads like wildfire on the internet.

    • Great post, I really appreciate the perspective.

      My understanding is that anonymity is designed to protect the accuser from retaliation or character assassination. Which, unfortunately, will probably occur when (if) the case goes to trial since things like the accuser’s state of sobriety/intoxication and history of sexual activity are used to establish their (lack of) credibility. This is one of the reasons that rapes are under-reported; defense attorneys aren’t shy about doing everything in their ability to paint accusers as sluts in an effort to undermine the their claim. Again, I’d be really interested to hear potential solutions to this dilemma.

    • jrzy78 .

      Great post, I am also struggling with all of this as both a woman and a long time Hawks fan. Its so hard to know who and what to believe. I do think that the woman’s attorney did not do her any favors, in fact its probably really hurt her case. In any event, in all of this everyone loses.

    • David Johnson

      I really appreciate your post, good perspective on it all

  • jrzy78 .

    Absolutely spot on, I wish I had something profound to add to this discussion. But that has just summed it up so perfectly. Thank you

  • KOfan

    Sam – nice job. I think the Hawks have screwed this up, but my guess is that they may have been sorta helpless (b/c of NHLPA, his lawyers, etc). Kane is the one who should have decided not to come. Even if you assume he’s innocent (which I don’t), it would have been the class thing to do.
    My takeaway is this, as a dad to a 10 yr old girl: protect yourself. Never, ever go to somebody’s house that you don’t know. And even if you know them it’s a risky proposition. Humanity is what it is. Protect yourself – unfortunately, no amount of news coverage is going to change the habits of what drunk assholes do when they are drunk. Even if Kane is exonerated, that’s what I’ll be trying to get my kid to do when the time is right to have that talk.

    • GoldenJet

      “Never, ever go to somebody’s house that you don’t know.”
      Fair enough…don’t forget “Never take candy from strangers!”

      “And even if you know them it’s a risky proposition. Humanity is what it is.”

      Seriously?! This is what you’re going to instill in you child?

      :shakes head and walks away…

      • KOfan

        Your faith in man is such that you’d advise your girl to have a few pops and go home with the drunk guy she’s hung out with for all of two or three hours?

        • Sopel the catfish

          I believe he was referring specifically to the “even if you know them” portion, other than that line I agree with your sentiment though (not a father myself but proud uncle with three nieces)

          • KOfan

            Prob right. I was sloppily trying to convey that even when u know them “date rape” seems to happen a lot. Scary

        • GoldenJet

          Hey…I shook my head and already walked away!

          Now I have to do it again.

          But first. I agreed with your first thought: Teach your kid some common sense. Don’t be out at the bars til closing. Don’t get stupid drunk. Don’t go home with drunk assholes…Hell, don’t go home with sober assholes. Use birth control…yada yada yada.

          It’s the second assertion that was way over protective and ridiculous. If you’d like to add don’t go home with some dude you know…WHEN HE’S DRUNK…well that would be more understandable.

      • Taking a Hobbesian view of mankind is one thing, but being adult enough to realize that not everybody in the world has your best interests in mind seems completely reasonable to me.

  • Andrew Heitman

    I think a simple paradigm for discussing this subject is something along the lines of : “There isnt one right way to approach it, but there is one very wrong way”

  • Matt

    I have tried to be at least partially one of the “wait for the facts” people, but at the same time I’ve gone on Twitter and RTed what I thought were anti-“wait for the facts” articles that I thought were well-written and thoughtful (places like here, Tim Baffoe’s piece, Jen’s piece, etc.).

    I think one of the things that has gotten to me a little bit is (and I think someone mentioned this below) how the narrative on supporting Kane or not has felt dichotomous. In other words, not only should you not cheer for him, but you should boo him when he’s on the ice. In no way, shape, or form, if I had been to the preseason game or training camp, would I have cheered Patrick Kane. I also would not have worn his sweater had I owned it. In addition, when I saw him playing in the preseason game, I found myself conflicted. But at the same time, I wouldn’t boo him. Seeing his face doesn’t make me angry. Once the facts come out, it very well might. But it doesn’t yet. Right now it makes me feel conflicted and simply strongly wanting to get the facts (which might never happen).

    This is kind of an aside, but Sam, you mentioned what we would think if Kane were charged with drunkenly beating someone up outside a bar or charged with murder. If it was a drunken bar fight I would assume he did it; if it was murder my instant reaction would be that he didn’t do it. Why? Simply because murder is a crazy, heinous crime that I don’t think many people are capable of committing. I feel that way about rape as well (and I suspect that a lot of other people do too), but I admit that therein lies the problem. In my mind, no one I know or associate with would be capable of raping someone. But to your point, clearly the numbers do not back that up. Of all of the crimes in society, I think rape is the least understood, and that’s a big negative on the culture around it. I’ve tried to be better about that recently as a result, though I don’t feel like I was too bad in the first place.

    Back to Kane for a sec — I’m not saying we’ll get this (and in fact I probably doubt it), but I think most of us, regardless of the side we’re on, just want to know what happened. In absence of that, my mind has tried to figure out what the hell could have happened given what we know. The thing that sticks out to me that gives me hesitation (again, not assuredness but hesitation) is that Kane seems to genuinely believe he’s innocent. I know that anyone in this situation would have a HUGE incentive to lie if they were guilty, but I don’t fashion Kane as a good liar. Not from what we’ve seen. On top of that, there have been a few reports out there saying that Kane seems anxious to explain the story (and no, not from Sports Mockery). One of them was a reporter from Quebec, who admittedly I don’t know, but I also asked Chris Kuc of the Tribune the same question on Twitter and while he said he didn’t know for sure, he felt like Kane believed that he did nothing wrong (note the wording there). This is tangential in some ways, but he’s also evidently still with his girlfriend. So either Kane is not only a rapist but also a fine actor, both to the public and his girlfriend, or there’s at least some complication that doesn’t make this straightforward.

    The flip side, of course, is this woman is not backing down. There have been multiple reports that both parties believe they’re the wronged party and neither wants to back down. That’s baffling to me, and I guess that’s why I can’t fully 100% commit to backing one side or another. The most important thing is to make sure not to treat the woman poorly as she has every right to state her claim.

    This is already an essay, so I’ll shut up after these two points: the victim-shaming and just the general negative, horrible culture that has come out (I’m talking the obvious, overblown fanboy stuff), and Sam, you make a good point about the public figure part. I started wondering what would happen if an office colleague had the same accusation, but that’s a very fair point about the public figure piece. I can’t understand why the Hawks are treating this so clumsily.

  • Matt

    Apropos of nothing, on average, I think the media has made this a lot worse. I know it’s their job, but some of them haven’t done their job well and it’s caused a lot of hurt.

    • Sopel the catfish

      The issue is that as connectivity and information sharing improves, the “traditional” media (newspapers, radio etc.) becomes more and more like social media (i.e. pure fucking garbage)

    • AirTrafficAJ

      The media has definitely made it worse, which has been their job for the last 15 years. Objectivity doesn’t sell.

    • Bob in EP

      It’s all about the clicks

    • Jim

      If it bleeds it leads.

  • HossasPierogi

    I think many of us don’t see this as a black and white situation — we see a lot of gray. Most Kane “supporters” would be quick to admit his culpability for landing himself in this situation. At the same time, you can’t judge an individual or a situation according to statistics or probabilities. There’s a million different variables of what could have happened between Kane and the girl. We still know little more than nothing. I am puzzled, however, by those who point to yesterday’s allegation of tampered evidence as a reason to suspend Kane. Unless you can show that Kane was involved in the tampering somehow, I don’t see how that changes the equation.

    • Sopel the catfish

      Pure conjecture on my part, but the most logical explanation I can think of is that either the accuser’s lawyer is trying to create as large of a shitstorm as possible to enlarge the distraction in an attempt to force either the league’s or the Hawks’ hand to suspend him, or he is working towards some kind of end game with a civil suit.

      • GoldenJet

        Except he claims he doesn’t involve himself in civil cases…

        • Sopel the catfish

          He may not, but I wonder if his firm does (and I remember reading somewhere that he had represented the accuser’s father in some $300K lawsuit, I’ll try to find the article)

          • Black JEM

            Yeah – he would be able to bill against the civil award if one were to happen – at least that is normally how they do it.

      • ToucanStubbs

        But theres not even any proof of tampering. Its an empty bag. They have to empty the bag to test it in the first place. Its a PR stunt.

        • Bob in EP

          Yes, the “validity” of the empty bag remains in question.

          • Sopel the catfish

            Each entity (PD, county PD, and attorney) claims to have the original. It will be interesting to say the least if we ever find out who actually has it (the original) and how the bag that was left in the door came to be.

      • Bob in EP

        Remember too that the Lawyer works for the client. This whole thing MAY not have been his call. He has a choice, fulfill his client’s requests or withdraw from representation.

        • Sopel the catfish

          Yup, one might say that he was…left holding the bag

          *rimshot*

          • WookRN

            … win of the day. Nice play man.

          • Sopel the catfish

            Don’t tell anyone but I’ve been the inside guy leaking tidbits and tampering with shit (I fly out to Buffalo each night after work)

    • ChiCityKyle

      Nobody knows if that bag to hold the kit wasnt duplicated or even the real bag yet. Or how and why it ended up there to begin with.

  • Kevin Shannon

    This is my first post to this website. I really enjoy the website.

    • GoldenJet

      What is wrong with you!!!

    • Jane Doe

      Whatever, Bernstein! Just kidding, welcome.

      • Jim

        Can’t wait to hear Bernstein’s mea culpa if Kane is exonerated.

    • ItalianBeef

      Welcome!
      So I can’t say I’d be on board with any daughter of mine dating one Patrick Kane but that’s based off of past events prior to this investigation. That said, to state that Kane put this young lady in a bad position is quite a stretch. Most of us have not a clue of what happened that night so that just seems rather presumptuous.

    • David Paul

      The DNA evidence and complete history of this case disagrees with your claim that “something bad happened” at his house. If she showed signs of sex, let alone rape, on her initial examination at the hospital, he would have been arrested. Ask Kobe Bryant about that.

      Then the DNA report, which exhonerates Kane, is leaked and the accuser’s attorney tries a ridiculously shady and probably illegal hail mary play to discredit it.

      This was a money grab and it’s falling apart. They’d better hope Kane wants it behind him and doesn’t pursue criminal charges.

      And another thing – all along people have been castigated for “victim shaming” if they made a suggestion that she put herself in a bad spot, while at the same time dredging up Kane’s past and saying the exact same things about him.

      The only one in the whole mess whose name was dragged through the mud for weeks was Kane.

      • Jim

        If exonerated, does EA sports put him back on? I think they should.

  • GoldenJet

    One positive to take from this…Look at all the female fans coming out of the woodwork on TCI!

    Of course now Sam and the boys are going to have to bring in some Febreze to try and get rid of the stank in here.

  • bmarlowe

    Fels: “It’s swung too far against for us not to have to try and swing it aggressively the other way to just even it out …this woman went to the hospital and the police that very night. That’s a very tough thing to do, and a lot of victims never get to that point, much less mere hours after an impossibly traumatic experience. To me, that earns her the benefit of the doubt. Because what has Kane done to earn it?”

    He is a citizen (actually – one need only be a human being). It’s earned by being born. I see no justification for Sam’s point of view, nor anything compelling in what he has written today or previously that supports a presumption of guilt in any way. In fact, I find the point of view expressed in this piece viscerally disgusting.

    This all reminds me of the McCarthy era witch-hunts. As with sexual assault, we really did have a serious problem back then with Soviet espionage, but that did not justify the pervasive presumption of guilt that ruined so many
    innocent people.

    BTW – you can be sure that if the test had shown the presence of Kane’s DNA, Fels would not be complaining about it’s release.

    • Matt

      I think this would be a valid explanation if people didn’t make comments and criticisms of rape accusers without knowing everything, but they do. A lot. Check out Twitter or Facebook and look at pretty much any reporter’s timeline on this case.

      I haven’t been in full force like Sam has but I understand where he’s coming from. It’d be one thing if absolutely no one commented until all of the facts were out. But that’s note the case here.

      • Black JEM

        I avoid facebook like the plague – twitter is for politics flaming. I really haven’t seen much reasoned commentary saying burn her she is lying. I think we may see more of that now based upon the more recent news.

        • Sopel the catfish

          The majority of the comments I’ve seen on the news articles outside of TCI from the start have pretty much been “she’s a gold digging whore and knew what she was doing”

          I hate social media with a passion

          • WookRN

            Again. How weird is it that THIS group of asshole drunks in this comment section are the ADULTS on the internet?!?!

          • Raul Miller

            I know, that shit just flies in the face of reason. If the “adults” on the internet are more @#$%ed up than this group, Armageddon can’t be far off.

      • bmarlowe

        There is absolutely no logic in saying that the accused should be denigrated by columnists (or whatever you want to call Fels and McClure) because of social media commentary that is obviously beyond his control.

        I too understand where Fels is coming from, and it isn’t right. He claims to be a liberal (I presume based on his comments about Fox News), but he surely isn’t acting like one.

        • Yoder

          WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT PATRICK KANE’S REPUTATION? WHY DO YOU CARE THAT PEOPLE SAY THINGS ABOUT HIM. YOU ARE NOT PATRICK KANE. YOU ARE NOT THE LOGO ON YOUR HOCKEY SWEATER.

          No really, why?

          Why is any hockey player’s reputation in Sam Fels’ eyes worth the potential rape of any woman?

          • bmarlowe

            Because he is a human being and for the reasons I gave just above, not one of which you have actually responded to.. Your response, despite your use of all caps, makes no sense.

            WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL RAPE OF A WOMAN, YOU ARE NOT HER (stupid response, right?)

  • GoldenJet

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-patrick-kane-situation-takes-a-dark-turn-in-buffalo/

    Nothing new…but a nice synopsis from a female writer in Buffalo.

    • CherryNYC

      I was just about to post this. Thanks. Katie’s great.

  • Sopel the catfish

    Not Kane related, apparently Keith’s wife wanted to receive $150K per month in spousal support, in addition to $70k for child support. Keith wanted it to be $15k and 10K.
    Judge eventually ruled it as $45k and $15k.

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/blackhawks-hockey/7/71/987048/duncan-keith-wife-denied-monthly-spousal-support

    • GoldenJet

      Seems like a pretty good deal for him.

      • Black JEM

        Don’t get divorced.

        • AMR

          or get a prenub. That won’t do anything for child support but could limit alimony

    • ZigZags82

      Lol, $150K per month for “support”. Damn divorces. $15K a month was more than fair as the original offer. Nice middle I guess. Pre nubs Pre nubs Pre nubs.

    • flahawkfan

      Holy shit. That’s lottery money she wanted.

      • Sopel the catfish

        I get that as a rule of thumb you ask for me in contract negotiations (business, sports, court) but it just seems really high. I don’t know how they tax the $45k she will get, but she should be able to do quite well by it especially since Keith is paying for the house too

    • Jim

      It’s obscene. Dont’ get me started….

  • ItalianBeef

    So this is happening about 20 minutes from now…

    https://twitter.com/ScottLevinWGRZ/status/647199305095344128

    • wreckinball

      The circus continues,
      The police really just dismissed the previous accusations but we’ll have to wait and see

    • GoldenJet

      Thanks for the heads up. I just watched on my phone from a Mariano’s parking lot. WTF?!

  • wreckinball

    Amazing, of course you have to wait for the investigation to run its course. To do otherwise is foolish. Criminals go free because there is not enough evidence to convict. We have decided as a nation to presume innocence and require guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, That means when in doubt no conviction.
    Those who say let justice run its course are not rape apologists anymore than those who say the same about an accused murderer are murder apologists
    Those who presume guilt ignore a lot of high profile and fairly recent cases that were false accusations
    That’s why it’s innocent until proven guilty
    And that is definitely the right side to be on

    • Yoder

      Right, and I bet you thought Aaron Hernandez was innocent until he was proven guilty in a court of law. Oh, and OJ Simpson, that guy is totally innocent too, didn’t murder anybody. After all, he was acquitted. I bet you’ve made Ben Roethlisberger or Kobe Bryant rapist jokes before. I know I have. But they were never charged either.

      I’m *so very fucking sure* sure that you’re treating those guys with the exact same level of even-handedness that you’re treating Patrick Kane. I’m sure of it.

      • wreckinball

        Mostly civil discussion except for you. Rodriguez was immediately charged same with Simpson, remember the infamous Car chase.
        Entirely different than Kane who is not charged.
        So you are advocating the same rush to judgement as in the Duke case. Turned out well. I guess in your case no lesson learned

  • GoldenJet

    Well, alrighty then…That was a thing..

    • Sopel the catfish

      Didn’t watch, what occurred? “This is the real bag. Peace” ?

      • GoldenJet

        Their attorney just quit.

        • Sopel the catfish

          woa

  • Jane Doe

    What the fucking fuck? This story would be unbelievable if you wrote it as a movie.

    • Jane Doe

      ..

  • wreckinball

    WTF This is some wild shit.

  • The Gatest Gamer

    Fels, as I commented in the other post, the worst part about this is how it reflects on rape victims en large. If Kane is legally cleared, most of the articles from your camp’s perspective will be used to smear all future rape accusers. It will eventually hurt victims a lot more than the “wait and see” approach. Especially because, as you saw, the wave of articles doesn’t seem to convert many people. Those who were in your camp will find their beliefs reinforced. Dudebros will keep being douchebags. And people in the middle will just get annoyed.

    P.S. Welp and here you go, this is getting worse and worse. Can’t wait until this mess is used to discredit a legit victim.

    • wreckinball

      Lesson learned is wait and see is always right

      • WookRN

        This !!!!
        (Which, happy to say, is what most of this audience appears to have done).

    • Black JEM

      And the problem is, the attorney is saying someone in the victim’s camp flat out lied to me. Thus, if it follows this path, it will join UVA, Lena Dunham, mattress girl, and the Duke Lacrosse team as major media fails.

      The media thinks they get a pass on this, but they would do well to remember the story about the little boy who cried wolf. And I think your post shows exactly how that works. That’s why the rule of law – not of the mob is so important. For a bunch of people who believe themselves to be very intelligent, they seem to have forgotten the basics.

      • Yoder

        Go talk to the 98 out of 100 women who were raped and unable to achieve justice about the rule of law.

        Funny how any false accusation is a media fail, and any case that goes unprosecuted just disappears.

  • wreckinball

    Sort of a reverse Tonya Harding situation

  • seabsrat

    This case reminds me of that scene in the wire where all McNulty and Bunk say for 4 minutes is “Fuck”.

  • Black JEM

    OK – anyone else seeing this out there. The accusers attorney is dropping her as a client due to misrepresentations by the client about the evidence bag. Down Goes Brown twitter feed retweeted a tweet by Tim Graham.

  • Sopel the catfish

    Friedman with the best little recap so far
    https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC

  • wreckinball

    Shit show
    Next presser on Friday
    At this point who knows

  • brettraz

    I have a problem with the reasoning in this article and the coverage by TCI on this topic in general. While your instincts to want to protect the alleged victims rights and to support victims of abuse are correct, noble and empathetic; it’s the manner and viciousness which you went after the accused without almost any concrete information and had little to no regard for any collateral damage you could possibly cause if there was in fact no crime committed. The rush to push this agenda, “move dirty dick out of town”, “I don’t want it” was just way too premature. You basically decided “I’ll trash Kane’s rep because pushing the rights of abuse victims as a whole” was more important to you. You could have easily trumpeted this viewpoint without all the bashing. Kane got a microphone and voice because his name is public and his reputation was destroyed irrevocably before a single charge was brought (maybe it was deserved, but maybe it wasn’t). The alleged victim is anonymous to the public at large and could easily get a press conference if she desired. I’m not going to speculate the fallout of the prosecuting attorney quitting, but if this case has taught anyone anything without doubt, it’s rush to judgement at your own peril. And you can couch it anyway you want, but this site definitely rushed to judgement. And in the hypothetical scenario comes about that this was a fabrication or no crime was committed, you can’t take back the damage you helped to cause.

    • Black JEM

      As a point of order – this was a private attorney helping the family with the DA office.

      My understanding is that she also has a civil damages attorney, who probably just reduced his expectations considerably.

      • JustSaying15

        As in maybe zero at this point. If the DA drops all potential charges tomorrow (which is possible though I be surprised if it did) then I really don’t see how this goes to civil when the prosecution could not even get it to a grand jury.

        • Black JEM

          Different standards of evidence. But I agree.

          • JustSaying15

            Absolutely! But Kaner’s attorney just said that suing her in civil court is not off the table given what happened. Now I don’t think Patrick wants that at all but instead this finally end ASAP (like tomorrow)but if she did take him to civil, he can counter sue and obviously has the $$$ to keep it tie in courts for years on end. Again Kaner does not want that especially a lot of embarrassing (not criminal) would come out. I mean let’s face it, this guy does have a girlfriend after all! But again it’s a weapon now @ Kaner’s disposal if she takes him to civil assuming this gets dropped by the DA.

    • bmarlowe

      ” it’s the manner and viciousness which you went after the accused
      without almost any concrete information and had little to no regard for
      any collateral damage you could possibly cause if there was in fact no
      crime committed. The rush to push this agenda, “move dirty dick out of
      town”, “I don’t want it” was just way too premature.”

      Yes – perfect.

    • Yoder

      Is the reputation of one hockey player worth any rape, ever?

      Being willing to listen to a woman that is accusing someone of rape is not rushing to judgement, when the vast majority of rape cases end unprosecuted even when the accused isn’t a wealthy sports star. It is merely an attempt to balance the scales somewhat.

      Also, why do you care so much about Kane’s reputation? You’re not him. You don’t even know him. He is a guy that plays for the hockey team that you root for. I’m pretty sure Patrick Kane does not give a single shit about what Fels or McClure think about him, or the “viciousness” of their words. But you sure as hell seem to care a lot about it.

      • brettraz

        It doesn’t have to be an either/or thing. That’s my point. You don’t have to slam someone without evidence in order to stand up for the rights of victims. I care about Kane’s reputation for multiple reasons. First and foremost, because he is a HUMAN BEING who had his life shredded on the biggest public stage without one concrete piece of evidence yet. Even if it turns out that no crime was committed, his life is already irrevocably damaged. I think it’s wrong to ask us to imagine what it would be like to be the alleged victim without also imagining what it might be like if you were falsely accused of this crime. I think you should have compassion for both sides until you have real solid information to make any kind of sound judgement. If you can only see this through either the goggles of someone who is or knows someone who has been sexually abused, or only through the prism of the someone who loves their favorite hockey player unconditionally, then you lose complete objectivity. Everyone who views it that way is treating this case like its a referendum on the entire male/female money/power vs. ordinary person dynamic. It bothers me that so many people are bringing all this baggage and placing it on this one case and not waiting for anything to materialize.
        And no, I don’t think Patrick Kane cares about me per se probably anymore or any less than the alleged victim cares about me. But I can empathize with a person whose life is torn apart without evidence just like I can empathize with a person whose life is torn apart by sexual abuse.

      • brettraz

        Also, when you are trying to persuade people on a topic as polarizing as this a little objectivity is required. Your going to have 2 camps that contain people who are so sure about their stance, informed by personal experience, education or lack there of or whatever that arguing with them is futile. You see it in politics and religion constantly. So you are really trying to persuade what is hopefully that large middle. When one side is either unwilling to wait for evidence/info and/or unwilling to mitigate previous positions based on new information/evidence, they lose a large amount of credibility. That is why some amount of objectivity is important. Telling readers basically this is how it is, if you don’t like stop reading; shutting down message boards repeatedly when counter view points are expressed and then name calling these commenters just doesn’t jive with trying to educate and persuade. otherwise, however right or just you believe your message to be, you are going to lose that middle and only entrench the other two camps further.

  • JustSaying15

    Her attorney just quit

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-patrick-kane-sedita-evidence-20150924-story.html

    I would really you reconsider what you wrote.

    • wreckinball

      Significant in that he is quiting since he could make big $$s in a settlement. Translation he has no confidence in the case. I think charges will soon be dropped. But it’s crazy

      • Black JEM

        I don’t think he is the civil damages attorney. That is a different one – and yes, probably dropping the case shortly.

        • JustSaying15

          True but he could part of the team if a large settlement was reached. He is also a friend of the family so him stepping down really does show he really felt like he was had by putting on that circus yesterday.

          • Black JEM

            OH yeah, very true. Not good for the accusing team.

      • JustSaying15

        He is actually a friend of the family. And yet he quits? He obviously must think her story has more holes in it then the Iraqi navy.

  • The Gatest Gamer

    Cambria’s turn to take another diarrhea dump into this overflowing bucket of bullshit.

    • JustSaying15

      WTF?

      • The Gatest Gamer

        Everything Eoannou can do, Cambria can do better, or something. It’s time for another presser: http://www.csnchicago.com/page/live

        • JustSaying15

          Ummmmmm that is called being a good attorney. He smells blood in the water and is going in for the kill. The longer this lingers the worst it’s for his client even with her lawyer quitting a day after trying to have a “gotcha” moment.

        • Sopel the catfish

          Pretty strongly worded by Cambria, and it seemed like the reporters tried to bait him a few times.

          • wreckinball

            I’m sensing he’s not quiting

          • Black JEM

            No – and he hinted they are evaluating a counter suit.

            Obviously a shot across her civil attorney’s bow.

  • wreckinball

    The media has been something else on this Very Rolling Stone like

  • HossasPierogi

    If you ever want to have a worse press conference than even the Blackhawks can manage, Mr Eoannou is your guy. How to throw your client under the bus 101 in two acts.

    • wreckinball

      Or it could be he was being lied to like he said, I suspect there is no case, Note that Kane’s lawyer is not quiting

    • JustSaying15

      Eoannou was had by a family he is friends with. Even Kaner’s attorney gave the guy slack.

  • wreckinball

    Eerily similar in some respects to Duke lacrosse. No DNA of the accused yet DNA from others. And lots of crazy shit. Big difference is the Hawks did not rush to judgement despite the media pressure. Good for them

    • Black JEM

      Eh – the Duke case was different. In that case the alleged victim flat out lied about the evening, and I believe the DA also was disbarred and did some jail time for his role in the false charges. There were roughly 88 professors/administrators who demanded the boys be expelled. None of them were made to quit or even rescind their statements when it was proven it was a witch hunt.

      The media was complicit in this because they wanted to believe the story. I do not believe we are at that point here. The police immediately countered the claim. The DA is investigating all of this, and the attorney helping represent her has removed himself from the case. The legal system has worked pretty well. The media has been the jack booted thugs they typically are.

      We still don’t know what happened – it is definitely sounding like a he said/she said – and perhaps that is being generous to her but we will see soon enough. His attorney hinted at a suit directed at the accuser and family – though he would not delve into why he thinks a counter suit is worth considering – I figure he is just rattling his sword – unless there is something really bad here. He deferred to the DA’s press conference tomorrow.

      • wreckinball

        Not exactly the same but it’s tracking similar except we don’t appear to have a rogue DA
        Big difference

        • Black JEM

          The most similar part of these stories – the media’s rush to judgement. Those virtuous defenders of our first amendment rights. Who feel no one else gets to exercise their constitutional rights if it gets in the way of a good story.

          • JustSaying15

            If Kaner is completely clear you wonder if the press will finally take a look at itself and not rush to judgment. I doubt it but one can hope.

          • Black JEM

            Absolutely no chance.

          • Raul Miller

            I don’t believe the media is about telling the truth any longer, it’s about driving up viewershipreadership numbers and the corresponding increase in revenue. Sad, but I think true.

          • JustSaying15

            Some of the press has been reporting the news fairly and objectively. Stacy St. Clair for example has been down the middle and just reporting the news as it unfolds. But for every Stacy there has been a Julie Dicaro who have such a subjective bias it be laughable if this wasn’t such a serious manner. And when it comes to bias, it has cut both ways. Yes more of the bias has been like Julie who is “pro-victim” but there are also some media members who have been “pro-Kane” ….and that isn’t right either! Both the alleged victim and Kaner have rights. Regrettably those rights have been run over by out of control media.

  • Blaine Jacobs

    This just came across from Blackhawk Up: Accuser’s lawyer has removed himself from the case, citing misrepresented evidence as the reason. http://blackhawkup.com/2015/09/24/lawyer-patrick-kanes-accuser-will-no-longer-represent-client/?utm_campaign=roost&utm_source=roost&utm_medium=desktop

  • Spomer

    This whole thing sucks. Sucks Sucks Sucks. I know it goes so much deeper than I am about to take it, but tonight I’d like to keep it simple, and forgive me if I take it solely back to the foundation of what we are talking about. The Chicago Blackhawks hockey club.

    Take personal feelings of guilt, innocence, rape culture, gender norms, etc.. completely out. Patrick Kane has once again put himself in a situation where he has – willingly or unwillingly, consciously or unconsciously – shit on the organization now for the third time. (fourth or fifth depending on if you count Vancouver or the other minor scrapes).

    Every time this has happened he has been given the slap on the wrist get out of jail free card. No matter how this current situation shakes out (I will spare you all my opinion of the current case), Kane comes out of the situation AT BEST looking like a person with a myriad of issues that compromise the organization as a whole. Enough is enough. In the words of Savard and this sites namesake, “if you don’t want to commit… get him upstairs… get him out of here”. I understand he is one of the finest talent that the game has ever seen, and on the Mount Rushmore of the club’s historical talent. But with great exposure comes great responsibility, and this young man has shown time after time that he is unable to measure up to his responsibilities off of the ice.

    Pair the club’s seemingly staunch support of Kane during this process with the outcome of the Collins CSN case, the Blackhawks, and Rocky / McD especially, are truly showing their ass on this. We can no longer give them any benefit of the doubt as it pertains to anything that comes out of their mouth. At least not until they enforce the rules of their moral high ground upon all members of their organization. This includes Patrick Kane.

    Go ahead, call me an idiot. I really don’t give two shakes of a llama’s dick. I just want the man to get his personal life in order, and do it on someone else’s watch.

    • wreckinball

      In light of what’s happened the last two nights this is you response. Could you possibly consider it could be a false accusation?
      And in that case Kane is guilty of getting drunk and either having a one night stand or attempting to
      How many guys on the roster have done same
      I’m going to say almost all

      • Spomer

        Yes. No matter how this shakes out, I would prefer to thank him for his service to the team and send him on his way.

        • wreckinball

          Well you can have your preference I’m glad the Hawksdont agree

          • Spomer

            Hey – you know… honest discussion and debate – and especially disagreement – is what makes us great.

          • JustSaying15

            For now they don’t. But Kaner end his party ways and settle down. Hopefully this will be enough to realize (assuming he is innocent) to scare Kaner straight.

          • Black JEM

            Even if he did next to nothing, 1000 times this. He is a target. He has had some episodes of stupid already and she could have taken him for seven digits easy – and still might.

          • WookRN

            This is my hope. It scares him enough to not BE in this situation again.
            Regarding Spomer… yeah, good thing you don’t run the show, because WOW.
            I’m still waiting for the thing to play out, but there hasn’t been any evidence against him yet, and mostly just evidence to his favor.

          • Spomer

            Totally fine by me. PK has shown me (or anyone for that matter) nothing to believe that he won’t find himself in another off ice situation that puts another black eye on the team. I won’t be surprised if nothing happens, but I also would not be surprised in the least if they cut ties after the dust settles on this. If he remains with the team, which is looking more and more likely, the leash is extremely short for the next time he mucks it up…and would it not be reasonable to pull the plug after the next episode? Explain to me when enough is enough? Or (looking at McD and Rocky here) as an organization is it perfectly fine and acceptable for each of Kane’s off-ice “situations” to grow increasingly more serious? Only time will tell. But if you think this is acceptable for “the brand” and you think that PK’s (past, to this point) behavior is acceptable and able to be overlooked by the big strokers in Hawks brass, I think you are looking at this through a very, very small lens.

          • David Paul

            If he was falsely accused for a money grab, as this is now appearing to be, stop blaming him.

          • Jim

            WookRN,

            I’ve been the same since the beginning, wait and see. And the more this unfolds, it seems nothing of substance has been presented to implicate Kane.

            Will be interesting to see the next bit of news out of Buffalo…..

    • Black JEM

      OK – I’ll call you an idiot. He went out for drinks, some ladies came home with them. Yes, not smart for him – but pretty typical for youngsters these days. Sounds like he actually may have behaved – or at least for this generation’s time how they define behaving. I reserve the right to leave open the possibility that he still did something. Sounds like we are going to find out what that may be sooner than later.

      • David Paul

        And, he had a designated driver.

        “But he was asking for it!”

    • David Paul

      You’ll be the first one complaining when Kane pots the WCF winner for the Kings in the UC.

      “How could they trade him when he was never charged!!!???”

      • Spomer

        What? No. Besides – given how Dean Lombardi and the Kings handled the Slava Voynov domestic abuse case, and how Kings F.O. & ownership was proactive in implementing a team personal conduct policy after said incident, I would imagine that the Kings wouldn’t be on the list of teams clamoring for PK’s services.

        • David Paul

          The evidence in the Voynov case was clear and shocking, and he was arrested and charged. This has never been more than he said/she said, and now it’s looking like a set up job.

          • Spomer

            Absolutely… but given the landscape and saying the Kings specifically would be the team PK would play for if cut loose was a bad example

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    And now the accuser’s lawyer has quit, though he says it’s about the bag and he still has confidence in her allegations.

    • JustSaying15

      He actually didn’t say that but even if he did, what else was he going to do? Throw the alleged victim under the bus? No way! The bag was a way to bow out gracefully without hurting his client. Plus he felt played by a family friend therefore I don’t blame him.

  • Black JEM

    OK – I have given up B&B show on the score. Any chance Dan’s head explodes on the air. Will some brave soul report?

  • GoldenJet

    He’s trying to save face and future business after getting played into that shitshow yesterday…and knowing what’s coming tomorrow..whatever that may be

    • JustSaying15

      True but he also got played by people he can considered friends so I’m sure he feels had. Even Kaner’s attorney gave the guy slack.

  • Black JEM

    Hey give Fels some credit – SCH has the report up on the latest happenings but has closed the comments.

    • AMR

      To be fair to SCH the first few post did have comments open and the trolls were out in force so they closed them. Also the SBN is probably more widely known than TCI. SCH are not forbidding people from talking about the case.

  • Sopel the catfish

    Off topic, best comment “on a scale of 1 to Enron how illegal is this?”
    http://imgur.com/gallery/buMKm

    • jordyhawk

      I’d put it at about Andy Fastow (not quite Skilling or Kenny Boy).

      Nice jerseys though.

    • GoldenJet

      Clearly made from a tarp-like fabric

  • Tyrant

    After today’s events and comments of both Eoannou & Cambria, this entire TCE s***show should be burned to the ground, starting with the ever-sanctimonious hide-behind-my-pseudonym “Sam Fels.” In the words of the poet-philosopher John Lydon; “Good riddance to bad rubbish.”

    Start TCE over again with a less-biased, more reasoned editor.

    • 1benmenno

      TCE?

    • Yoder

      There is no The Committed Indian without Sam Fels. To even express the idea is to acknowledge a fundamental lack of understanding with reality. Which, judging by your pseudonym comment, you obviously possess.

      Eat shit and die.

    • Yoder

      BTW, I love The Committed Endian, the blog for people who are obsessed with the End Times.

      • WookRN

        Endian. Apparently from East India?
        Endian. Relating to End Times (sure, we’ll go with it)?
        Endian. Fans of a famous Chinese martial artist?

        And I haven’t agreed with Fel’s reactions either, but I think we can all agree his intentions were good. Frankly, while I don’t “know” Fel’s anymore that I know Kane, I do get the feeling he’s a good dude, trying to do some good on the platform he has. That platform being a damn good hockey program. So, Tyrant, indeed good riddance, as you leave.
        And thanks for the reminder, I need to reup my subscription.

        • flahawkfan

          East Endia.

  • Tyrant

    Sorry TCI.

    • 1benmenno

      Sorry TCI? Sorry, TCI?

  • Brandon Murray

    I like this blog. I read this blog. I want to get previews, recaps, and info from this blog. I will continue to visit this blog. However……

    It always amazes me when someone goes off on a soapbox or rant or venting session or whatever you call it and talks about justice or equal rights or respecting opinions and then proceeds to say “right winger” or “fox news” is bullshit. Not just you Fels, you just happen to use the same example. Whether you are Republican or Democrat, the point will always be the same. Most individuals claim to be fighting the good fight, while they consistently bash the other side. Aren’t you doing exactly what you claim to hate or claim to be above?

    If anyone claims to support (while waiting for facts) PK or any other person accused of this horrible act, you are immediately labeled a pig or a sexist or a rapist lover. Meanwhile, women like Julie DiCaro are allowed to continually spew hate or use the word “SOURCE” in all caps before giving a nugget of gossip or half-truth over the ever reliable Twitter. Tweeting has become breaking news and our go to for facts, perhaps when Vince Vaughn referred to it as “Twatting” he was right.

    Tonight at my 16 year old daughter’s powder puff game, some asshole saw my Hawks hat (remember I live in St. Louis) and screamed “Patrick Kane is a rapist”. I continued walking, he screamed it again. I turned around and walked up to him, and asked him if he had a problem. He said “What if that girl was your daughter man, how can you wear that hat?” To which I replied, “I’m no lawyer, I’m not a cop. I’ll wait until I learn more before passing judgement and I certainly won’t want him on the team if he did this. But let me ask you this question friend, what if Patrick Kane was your son or your brother? Are you blindly throwing the book at him?”

    There was silence, followed by mumbling, followed by what I thought was a shot at the Cubs, but I’m not sure I was already walking away.

    Everyone is allowed an opinion. Yes, many women get raped and many never come forward. Unfortunately it is an ugly part of society. However, many women also falsely accuse men of rape. Many women agree to sex and then change their mind. 100% of the time, only the two people in the room know how it went down. Neither of these people can ever be exonerated no matter the outcome in the court of public opinion, there are no winners.

    That being said, even the staunchest people who want to see PK suspended or believe he raped this girl have to admit that this “evidence bag” was suspect at best and now with her lawyer basically quitting at a critical juncture, the case is developing more holes than I ever imagined. DiCaro can say “he quit because he pissed off the mother” all she wants, but if the lawyer truly believed her story, he wouldn’t jet off in a high profile case.

    It is looking more and more like there is a lot of fabrication and no one will ever truly know. However, because of lawyer-client privileges always being present, there is no way her lawyer is going to say she is a liar or a fabricator on his way out the door, because he knows that if he does he will look like a fool and she will probably sue him for ruining the case.

    Like I said before, I am CLEARLY not saying I think 88 is innocent and I am CLEARLY not saying I think 88 raped her. I’m saying I want to know more, I accept the fact that I may never know more, and I’m starting to think that a lot of this is made up and it’s quite possible that something happened but it might not have been a “rape”. It is just too bizarre.

    This is my humble opinion and I believe I am entitled to it. Just once I like to be able to speak it without being blasted or told how wrong I am. Whatever happened to that America?

    Sorry for the rant and thanks Fels for giving us a voice even when we disagree with you. Like I said, I like this blog. I will continue to return to this blog.

    • WookRN

      THIS IS COMPLETE CRAP! …. I’m pretty sure twatting was from Colbert. Unless I’m wrong. In which case, I apologize.
      Aside from that, yeah, pretty much. I’m glad Fels has let us talk this out, and I’m glad that the people here have been the respectful adults and not just attacked each other and been dicks (with, perhaps, one notable writers exception).

    • GoldenJet

      Nice rant

    • Jane Doe

      “he quit because he pissed off the mother” all she wants, but if the lawyer truly believed her story, he wouldn’t jet off in a high profile case.

      While I agree with *some* of what you said, the above excerpt is waaayyy off base with the information we have right now. A lawyer will walk away when they are put in a position to make statements or representations that they later find out are untrue, based on info originally provided by a client or, in this case, a family member. And, as for the high profile case, if your implication is he wouldn’t “jet off” because of a potential payday, he wasn’t retained for a civil suit, just the criminal side of this.

  • ItalianBeef

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-patrick-kane-sedita-evidence-20150924-story.html

    Citing multiple sources, Tribune reports that accuser’s friend no longer fully backs accuser’s version of events and is expressing reluctance to testify.

    • GoldenJet

      It’ll be interesting to hear how Bernstein spins this. I can hear his voice in my head: “Well of courses she’s reluctant to testify!”

  • Yoder

    No matter what ends up happening in this case I just want to say that I stand behind any and all of the posts made by Fels and McClure in this situation.

    Rape is a terrible terrible thing that happens to many more women than society is willing to admit. It has happened to women that you know. It is very likely that it has happened to women that you consider friends. It just has. Despite this, it is beyond difficult to have a rape charge prosecuted, let alone for that charge to result in a conviction.

    What is truly unfortunate about this situation is that it appears that it is going to become another Duke lacrosse team. An example that women are just willing to make this up, despite the countless numbers of cases that are to the contrary. And this situation is going to be used as such, to pressure women into not coming forward, and into not reporting the rapes they suffer through. That is a goddamn tragedy.

    The goddamn tragedy is not, IS NOT, is most definitely not, that a famous hockey player (that happens to play for the team you root for) may have been falsely accused of a crime. Because if he was in fact falsely accused, then by all appearances the justice system has done its job.

    How lucky for him, that the law appears to have done its job for this rich white man. How unlucky, and unjust, for the untold numbers of women for whom the law has failed in this regard.

    We need to be willing to listen to women who claim to be victims of rape. It doesn’t matter who the guy is, in this situation the deck is stacked against the woman to an incredible degree. Slanting the table slightly in the accuser’s direction, in a direction willing to listen and understand … that costs most of us NOTHING. If your sister came to you with this, you would believe her. If your cousin, or your aunt, or any female member of your family came to you with this, you would believe her. You would be fucking pissed as hell at that kind of violation committed upon a woman in your family.

    Just, maybe, MAYBE, you should be willing to extend that kind of compassion, that kind of understanding, and yes, maybe even that kind of anger (!) on the behalf of someone you don’t know. Despite what some may tell you, this isn’t a liberal or a conservative thing. It’s just not. At the heart of it it’s not even a feminist thing, so far as people have trouble with the connotations of that particular word. This is a HUMAN thing. Rape is wrong. It is going unpunished every day.

    And that’s what I have to say on the topic.

    • WookRN

      Yeah… pretty sure no one here said rape was ok…
      I never read a single post on here (which isn’t to say I didn’t miss one) shaming this female. Everyone here thinks rape is bad…. so… I guess… thanks for agreeing with everyone?

      • Yoder

        I have read plenty of posts on here disparaging TCI for their position on this subject. I have read plenty of posts rushing to defend Patrick Kane as soon as this story broke, and I have read posts claiming this woman was a gold digger searching for a payday. I have seen people more concerned with the reputation of a hockey player than with the possible rape of a woman. I have seen people fucking cheering for an ACCUSED RAPIST when he appeared in public. So forgive me if I don’t think everyone agrees with me.

        To be clear, I don’t think that any Blackhawks fan that is defending Kane is condoning rape. “Rape is bad” is a simplistic and sophomoric view of this issue. You will not find a person out there willing to say that they think rape is good, and if you do then you should think about locking them up ahead of time. “Rape is bad and is often unreported and unprosecuted,” is a little closer, but still not all the way there. Judging by our record, our society at large seems kind of unconcerned with listening to and helping women who claim to have been raped, which ends up being an awful lot of women, so … Yeah. This situation is not going to help that.

        What some people call “condemning” Patrick Kane I call listening to a potential rape victim. In these situations I honestly don’t believe in a “wait and see” approach, because it turns out that wait and see in rape cases often turns into wait and then nothing, because nothing happens. If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. I’m not a judge, and I’m not on a jury.

        Like I said, slanting the table slightly in the accuser’s direction costs me next to nothing. But knowing there is enough people willing to listen AND believe could mean everything to a young woman who is struggling with reporting a rape. That, to me, is much more important than what any person thinks about Patrick Kane.

        • WookRN

          Once again, we’re all entitled to our opinions.
          It’s my feeling that most of the readership here has, in fact, taken a wait and see approach. Not cheering of Kane, not calling here a gold digger. Waiting for any level of evidence. That didn’t mean IGNORING her side, but there were nothing but rumors and alleged facts from “sources” etc, so many chose to wait before condemning either party. For my two cents, I’ve never met Patrick Kane. He may very well be a complete asshole. (He probably is, granted). I’ve never met her either. She may be a lying sociopath. (She’s probably not). But knowing neither party is why, in my opinion, most people chose to wait for actual reports from the victim, her friends, the police, etc.
          My take on this case HAS been “I sincerely hope this didn’t happen, not because of my sports allegiance, but because I don’t want a woman’s life ruined.” It has since turned slightly toward “I really hope this isn’t the fiasco it looks like, because this is going make it harder for future rape victims, especially at this profile level.”

          And most of the complaints I’ve seen “disparaging” (well chosen word, credit) this forum has not been their view, it has been on particular author which did accuse those not calling Kane horrible names as all being rape apologists. The issue wasn’t the position Fels and Co took, it was that the forums was being respectful and polite, and were being called names by an author, who then locked the forums after. Most of us can all be adult, for just as I disagree with your inflexibility in your position (being that the wait and see are hurting things) but I respect what you are saying, the position you are saying it from, and the fact that you, I’m left to assume, are doing this simply as a decent human with nothing to gain from it.

          DL:DR- I disagree that all the wait and see are bad guys here, but I appreciate your sympathy for rape victims everywhere.

          • WookRN

            Wait. Except for the “burn down the TCE” guy.
            He’s an idiot and no one here claims him.

          • Black JEM

            You are very gracious in your response. I would have not been quite so – for I take direct issue with his post and the logic of his argument which is nothing but rape is bad (it sure as hell is, that’s no real stunner there) and since it is, we can shred the supposed perpetrator despite the fact there is no evidence at our disposal to make such a judgement – except that the said perpetrator seems to have a thing for not handling his alcohol as well as we would prefer.

            That’s it. That was the basis for Fels and Co to take the stand they did, and you rightly note how one of said “and Co” chose to do so. Not the blogs best moment.

            All crime sucks. Rape is a pretty serious one. Just because most of us felt that we didn’t know enough to form a true opinion (and in honesty I still don’t know what happened, though the way recent events have unfolded it probably is to Kane’s advantage).

            You know what else is important – and is more important than this crime, any crime – due process of law. For suggesting we wait for that due process to play out, we are the wackos, say those more enlightened types. Glad the local authorities seem to have not been moved by these enlightened types. Kane is rich and he will survive – but if he has done nothing wrong, he already has lost endorsements that are not insignificant, and the certain percentage of people who feel he is guilty, regardless of what the law ends up saying. His own foolishness in being out the way he was – perhaps the loss of $$ signs will make him realize that. Time will tell.

            I really hope this was not a contrived situation and that is was nothing more than some crazy turn of events that let two people become cross-wise with each other, all the while thinking neither had done the other wrong at all.

            If it turns out that this was more contrived – and so far we have nothing to suggest that I might add – my disappointment at our media contingent, including some here, will rise much higher than I ever thought possible.

        • bmarlowe

          “If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. I’m not a judge, and I’m not on a jury.”

          It’s clear that you are trying to be both.

          “Like I said, slanting the table slightly in the accuser’s direction costs me next to nothing.”

          Really – before you have the facts? There is a cost. It is at best unfair, and at worst dangerous in what is supposed to be a liberal (in the classical sense) society.

    • David Paul

      You should probably be more careful painting with that broad brush. Are you sure you don’t mean “sexually assaulted” when you claim we all know people who were raped? Rape is very well defined legally, whereas sexual assault spans a vast continuum of acts and can, in point of fact, be something as innocuous as an unwanted off-color comment, depending on where you live or go to school.

      • GoldenJet

        Painting with a broad brush from the top of a high horse that’s standing on a soapbox is a pretty precarious position…especially when it’s so crowded on that saddle.

  • sec. 317

    just a few points to make as i dont feel like scouring all the comments to see if im repeating myself:

    1.) how the fuck is this lawyer still saying her name in his presser. he was dumb enough to show the bag with her name, that to me this smells of this lawyer saving face. Instead of firing him for his missteps, he quit. But then to further fuel the fire of fuckingupness he says her name like 6 times.

    2.) Hes not really her “lawyer”. The DA is the one who will actually try this case. I think hes more of a handholder, and NOT a civil lawyer.

    3.) I may be wrong but if we withdraw what happened 2 days ago, this case is essentially the same, maybe not in the court of public opinion, but in a court of law.

  • Jim

    +1 for the wait and see crowd. I think more shoes will drop.

  • Cville Indian

    What I’ve learned so far…

    1. This is tough stuff and it requires tough conversation…I feel we are all gaining something from all of this talking/yelling/reading/thinking.

    2. TCI is a great place, let’s give it up to these guys for giving us a place to voice our passionate and differing opinions.

    3. TCI is a blog and they get to say what they want, when they want, how they want and we get to read it or not. That is how it works…no expectations on either side.

    4. It is obvious and awesome to see the passion and understanding that TCI has for victims of rape or sexual assault. I commend them for that. I hope they can use that passion beyond this one Blackhawks related incident to help others. Maybe another blog dedicated to that subject. I for one would stand with you guys on that and I bet A LOT of people on here would. DrunkIdiotHockeyFansTryingToHelp.com? There is a HUGE void of men speaking out loud and consistently on behalf of rape victims. You guys would be a big help in filling that void. From this mess comes opportunity.

    5. We all know there are idiots everywhere (most of them drive near me on my way to work…fucking assholes get the hell out of my way, what the fuck are you doing…!) and luckily we get to press the delete button, or scroll past, or let it bounce off of us, or not absorb it. All this crazy Twitter stuff is useless and most people are unaware of it and it bounces around a small and uncrowded room (I hope that makes sense). No one really hears them except other idiots. For every one of these losers I would guess there are 10,000 good people, probably too busy trying to earn a living, that don’t have time or don’t care to speak out on this subject.

    6. Some of you folks on here are actually pretty smart.

    However this ends, my hope is that no one was raped or assaulted, that would be the best outcome. Everything else is fixable.

    Fuck all of you

    • Say what again

      Fuck anyone who uses the word “folks.”

    • Hawkhunter

      +1

    • JustSaying15

      We don’t need more advocates in this world. There are too many of them. Just look on Twitter (which you just bashed in your rant). Quite frankly what we need is more people who pursue justice. If a crime is committed, then the victim (in any case) deserves justice. And if the accused happens to be innocent, then that person deserves justice. Our world needs to be one that justice is served, not advocates.

      And no the DA in this case is not a “advocate for the victim” or even her attorney like I seen in countless media accounts. The DA is the voice of the people. Nothing less, nothing more.

  • gobears1987

    So Sam, when will you apologize to Kane for slandering him? When will you apologize to your fellow fans who wanted to wait for facts before rushing to judgement?

    • Jim

      Kane has not been exonerated, but wonder if the Second City Hockey writer is still ashamed to be a Hawk’s fan?

    • Spomer

      Such an idiotic statement. Sam doesn’t have to apologize for shit. He writes the blog and gives his opinion as he sees it. You don’t get to ask for an apology. You don’t like what you read, don’t read it. You aren’t the editor of this site. Sam is. He can do with it what he chooses. Piss off.

  • Jim

    Recap so far:

    This all from internet sources, FWIW

    1. No Kane DNA below the accuser’s waist
    2. 1 or 2 other guys DNA below the accuser’s waist
    3. Accuser’s Attorney alleges tampered rape kit
    4. Accuser’s Attorney quits, alleging tampered rape kit may not be legit
    5. Police and Lab say evidence all intact
    6. Accuser’s friend refuses to testify
    7. Still no charges against Kane
    8. Kane says he did nothing wrong

  • Preacher

    As this Salvadore-Dali-Twilight-Zone-Criminal-Intent-EveryoneInThisRoomIsNowDumberForHavingListenedToIt-episode continues, I’m guessing further weirdness will emerge. If the “no Kane DNA, but 2 or 3 others” report is true, are we looking at gang rape? And that Kane only facilitated it but didn’t “participate?” Who are these other guys? Who was actually with the accuser, and why is she no longer going along with the original story? On and on it goes.

    I’m sure the press conference today will clear everything up, right? Sigh….

  • wreckinball

    The boys on 670 squirming just a little

  • wreckinball

    Oh we’ve just heard the PK is not you’re friend statement.
    LOL so the anonymous accuser is
    Wonder if Crystal Magnum their friend

  • blackhawkski

    what i find odd is how the two sides are arguing (i would say there are three sides [kane is guilty, kane is not-guilty & lets wait for the facts]) have been fueled by the leaks.

    this story was about a month old with no legit leaks of anything, if i’m not mistaken. with that in mind, all any side had to go on was what they were extrapolating based on their personal experience or thoughts on kane or rape culture.

    then you add in the multiple leaks (first it was that the friend wouldn’t testify, then it was that there were settlement talks, then there were no settlement talks, then again settlement talks, then again, definitely no settlement, then the rape kit has no Kane DNA, then the bag, then the mom is a liar) it’s just…i don’t know what the fuck to believe so in the end, at this point, i don’t know how anybody can be confident in any opinion they have on the situation.

    that doesn’t mean kane should be in camp (he shouldn’t) but any other strong feelings other than “this is fucked” seems odd to me.

    • Bob in EP

      It is definitely a lesson in applying critical thinking in the internet age. Anyone with a computer can make up the “truth” to fit their own agenda and perpetuate it in a variety of ways. Agreed, this is fucked.

    • wreckinball

      Agree with everything except that Kane shouldn’t be in camp. If he’s charged I agree he should be suspended but even then that’s judging. Charges were filed in Duke Lacrosse and Tawana Brawley how’s that for way back when!
      There is zero basis to keep him out now
      As I posted earlier I keep hearing all the stupid Kane is not your friend statements
      Neither is the anonymous accuser
      I’m firmly a wait and see guy and also a firm believer in the presumption of innocence
      I could see Bill Belechik scheming right now to accuse his opponents QB with rape right before the super bowl

  • seabsrat

    It’s curious if this whole bag hoax was premeditated by the mother. Then you have to wonder if she was simply acting irrationally in an attempt to get justice for her child, or if she is part of a bigger hoax involving the alleged victim.

    Regardless, the mother may have just destroyed their case.

    To beat the dead horse (to death again), we’ll just have to wait and see for more evidence and legitimate information.

  • Sopel the catfish