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Cheli And A Couple Other Notes

This past weekend, the best defenseman in Hawks history went into the hockey Hall of Fame. And nary a word was mentioned around town. Or at least that’s how it felt. Sure, there was a Bears game and the Bulls have started. But we know that’s not the reason. But instead of trying to improve on what my brother The Ombudsman wrote in yesterday’s Indian, I’ll just provide it here.

So one of the best Blackhawks of all time is going into the hall of fame
tomorrow. Did you know that? Did anybody? He’s going in with Scott Nedermeyer,
And Brendan Shanahan (as well as Ray Shero and Geraldine Heaney).
He played the prime eight years of his ridiculous 26-year career with the
Hawks, garnering two Norris trophies and making seven all-star appearances
during that time.

So why isn’t Chris Chelios getting any love from Blackhawk Nation?
This is arguably the greatest Blackhawk defenseman of all time. No, I’m
not overstating that. I didn’t see Pierre Pilote play so I can’t testify to him. But
he was stronger and tougher than Doug Wilson, better in his own end than
Maggie, better than Keith and Seabrook, better than all of them. He singlehandedly
destroyed the Vancouver Canucks (something all Hawks fans enjoy)
bringing the Hawks to their first Stanley Cup appearance in 20 years. He’s
also FROM Chicago. And he plays the type of game—tough, honest, hard
working—that supposedly endears a player to the Chicago
fan the way Butkus, Bobby Hull, and Jerry Sloan played back
in the day. And yet he’s going into the hall with barely a whisper
of congrats from his hometown and one of his clubs.

Now the meatball response to all this is that he eventually
became a Red Wing. He actually wound up playing more
years with the Red Wings than he did with the Hawks, which
is just incredible because when he was traded to the Red
Wings he was 37 and considered on the down side of his
career. But we don’t let the meatballs win around here. We
didn’t let them turn Carcillo into a fixture; we’re not going to let
them win now… right?

But Chelios kind of went through his time not only when the Blackhawks
were at their least relevant, but never really had time to sink in to Chicago
fans as one of the greatest. There were several factors. Among them:

1. Who he was traded for. Chris Chelios was acquired (along with Mike
Pomichter, anyone remember Mike Pomichter… anyone? Beuller? …Mike
Pomichter?) for Denis Savard in a classic “make a statement” Mike Keenan
trade that was supposed to show how his teams were going to be built on
defense. The brain of a Hawks fan knew this was an excellent trade for the
Hawks. But the heart? This was Savior Faire! Savard was a legend. And
unless you won the Cup, you were going to have a hard time replacing the
legend, let alone becoming one yourself.


2. The Hawks didn’t win the Cup. Jaromir Fucking Jagr. Losing Larmer
and banking that goal off of Belfour. Hawks came into that series red-hot
and went deep blue cold right after that first game. Series was over before it
started. Not that people noticed because…


3. The Hawks were deep in the Bulls shadow. This was due to two factors:
One was the demolition of the old Chicago Stadium and the second was the
rise of the Bulls dynasty, bringing millions of fans into the fold. Basketball
knows how to shovel-feed something successful to the masses of the stupid.
“Rock N Roll Part II,” The Romantics’ “What I like About You,” Alan Parsons’
Project’s “Eye in the Sky” are still played during each and every Bulls game.
Don’t evolve, don’t change, just act like it’s 1992. That’s pretty easy for a fan
to do. Thus, there are still a lot more Bulls fans than Hawks fans despite their
recent successes. And back when Chelios played… well, he didn’t have a
chance.


4. How he went out. It wasn’t so much that he got traded to the Red
Wings. But it was the last shoe to drop. Roenick got traded for 70 cents on
the dollar with Alex Zhamnov. Eddie Belfour got traded for 30 cents on the
dollar for Ulf Dahlen, Greg Millen, and a bunch of garbage.
And Chelios said he didn’t really want to get traded but things
deteriorated (as everything under Bill Wirtz deteriorated…)
and Chelios wound up leaving the Hawks.


5. Anders Ericsson and Steve McCarthy. Ericsson was
a bust. You knew it the minute you saw him play. McCarthy
you had a little hope for as a puck rushing d-man. Very little.
Another 30 cent on the dollar trade that sent the franchise
into exile where you were lucky to draw two to three thousand
people a game.


There was that pathetic night when McDonough was making
nice with all the ex-Hawks and bringing each one back to
have their own night. And Chelios got booed at his. He took
it in stride and was actually pretty cool about it. But now he’s
going into the hall of fame, and the prime of his career took place right here.
There was nobody better, sorry Duncan Keith fans. DK may have two Cups
and a Norris but he didn’t play with nearly the edge that Chelli did. Maybe if
you combined Seabrook’s toughness and intimidation with Keith’s aggressive
jump and headiness… then we’d be talking Chelios-like quality. He was also
ahead of his time opening a restaurant within spitting distance of the United
Center, wouldn’t you agree Billy Goat Tavern, West End Tavern, Ogden
Grille…?

And yet all I see is one story from Herb Gould. HERB GOULD. He wrote
a neat article and had a cool story where Chelios asked Herb to plant a quote
in the paper to piss off Brian Propp. Read it if you get a chance. Remember
when beat reporters actually talked to the players and didn’t just “wait for
Q”? (So close, almost made it through an article without commenting on how
much the current Blackhawks beat sucks… what can I say? It does, it really,
really does.)


McDonough’s no fool. He knows having Blackhawk-friendly hall of famers
is a good thing. You want someone who averaged 22 minutes for his 1,651
game career to be synonymous with Blackhawk hockey. It’s just a shame
that there has to be a how and a when and a why for it. It should be NOW,
because Chelli was a Hawk and he’s going into the hall of fame.

I agree with most of this. I did feel there was something resembling a thaw when Cheli went into the US Hockey Hall of Fame a couple years ago and did get a stand ovation with the others. But it’s time for the full healing. Cheli didn’t demand to go to Detroit. They were the only offer and he knew he couldn’t stay here. The Hawks of the early and mid- 90′s? Those were Chelios’s teams. Not only does he deserve one more chance in front of his home crowd, but we need another chance to prove that we can be finally give him the ovation he’s deserved for years — despite the DUIs, of course.

Sidenote: you can read Felzzy at CubsDen.com and @felzzy27 on Twitter.

-The question was raised on Twitter last night about how much Duncan Keith does miss with a shot or have it blocked. Well, me and other went through the numbers because we don’t have kids and have the time to do stupid shit like this. Anyway…

Keith as attempted the 7th-most shots among defensmen in the league with 114. Byfuglien, Subban, Karlsson, Wideman, Green, and Garrison are ahead of him. Of his attempts, he’s had 37% blocked, which is also seventh in the league. Funny enough, Seabrook is actually 3rd in this category. If you combine the percentage of shots that are both blocked and missed the net from total taken, Keith is still seventh at 57%. Seabrook is also third in this category at 64%.

I know some of you will ask, so Brent Seabrook gets 40% of his attempts on net, Duncan Keith 43%, and Nick Leddy 52%. Take it for what you will.

  • 10thMountainFire

    He was definitely the best Hawks blueliner I have ever seen wear the Indianhead on his sweater. I don’t even think there’s anyone really in his league as a candidate to challenge him for ‘best ever’.

    Again, your point about Pierre Pilote is solid. But Cheli’s game winners against Vancouver were sweet, sweet tasting delights.

    • AirTrafficAJ

      Even back then, I knew those goals were making Luongo cry. And those tears tasted sooooo sweet.

      • Joe Banks

        Ah yes, – the “tears of Luongo”…. so sweet.

        • Paul the Fossil

          Pilote is an interesting case. Obviously it was a radically different era and it’s very hard to compare across leagues/sports as different as the mid-60s NHL was from the mid-90s league let alone now. How might Pilote do at the pace of today’s game but with today’s training and sports medicine and so forth? (He didn’t even play between ages 14 and 17 because the town rink had burned down and that was a very typical storyline for that era.) Damfino.

          But still: three _consecutive_ Norris trophies is pretty unique and he was runner-up in the voting three more times. So six straight seasons he was voted as either the best or second-best defenseman in the league. He seems to have resembled Cheli in a way too in being a bit of a hard-ass on the ice: twice reached more than 160 PIM in a season, in 70-game seasons and an era with fewer rules that could result in 5- or 10-minute penalties. And he was an iron man, at one point played 376 consecutive games.

          Also I’m also pretty impressed that he was given and kept for seven seasons the “C” on a team that included two guys who were each winning back-to-back league MVP awards! Imagine if the Pens right now had a d-man who they considered so good that they picked him as the C over Crosby _and_ Malkin…that would have to be one seriously skilled D-man eh?

          All in all it looks from this distance like Pilote was in his era just about as big a cog for the Hawks as were the young Hull and Mikita. Of course he never attracted anywhere near the attention that they did. But the above record of accomplishments seems to put him in pretty elite company all-time.

          • 1benmenno

            Pilote should be better known. Not much film footage available of his work.

  • CommonSense1957

    I don’t buy into the premise that the Blackhawks’ organization is somehow stifling information about Cheli’s honor. It was mentioned quite prominently prior to the Dallas game on WGN, on the Blackhawk’s Web site, and it’s been in all the papers. I guess they could play up Cheli coming from Chicago a bit more. But what do you want? A parade?

    • Bullitt315

      I would like another parade…

  • Preacher

    When I introduced my then-girlfriend (now wife) to my Blackhawks obsession many years ago, I bought her a jersey. We still have it. #7. And we have two autugraphed pictures of Blackhawks– both of them Chris Chelios. He was my favorite player for a lot of years. A great player all the way.

  • Bobby Otter

    I think a part of the reason it wasn’t hyped more was that I think everyone’s unsure ‘how’ Cheli is going in. I know the Hockey Hall of Fame isn’t like Cooperstown were you go in as a player with a team, but it also doesn’t feel like he’s going in as a Hawk. Part of this is because he played for the Habs and Wings, instead of, say, the Nordiques and Thrashers. And then he proceeded to play forever (seemingly) for the Wings. But you totally nailed it with his time here in Chicago happening at the same time as the Bulls and then he left and the Hawks entered a decade of nothing. I was bummed out when the moved him.

    Cheli’s return to Chicago, in ’99 I think, was a big deal. That was a somewhat hot Hawks ticket, maybe the last hot Hawks ticket until ’08 or ’09 (though they did make the playoffs in ’02).

    Cheli was better than Keith, it’s close since Keith is a hell of a skater, but agree that Chelios was the superior player.

    I have no clue why the Sun-Times went with Urlacher’s jersey being retired in New Mexico over Cheli on the front of their sports page on Sunday. That’s inexcusable imo. But then again, it’s like they’re trying to drive that paper into the bottom of Lake Michigan at this point.

    • AirTrafficAJ

      Excellent post. And fuck the sun-times.

    • cza

      Great point. The Montreal years are not incidental—already had ROY runner-up, a Cup, and a Norris Trophy—which makes him a little different animal than homegrown players like Keith. Cheli had already played most of the length of Keith’s career before coming to Chicago.

  • MattC86

    A lot of this is quite simply tied up in having so many new fans and a lack of understanding of the Hawks before 2007. Look, Cheli was traded in 1998. 15 damn years ago. For many of the teams’ younger or newer fans, they only think of him as a Red Wing. Mikita and Hull were easy to drag back on board (notice they never got Glenn Hall to come back); Cheli and Roenick were still playing, and Cheli for the arch enemy. It’s a lot easier to say “bygones are bygones” with guys who retired 30 years ago than with guys who clearly were completely jolted by all the turbulence surrounding the worst years of the Wirtz era and their trades away from Chicago.

    As much as I acknowledge how great he was, and I know his heart was in the right place, him bringing the Cup to Wrigley and all that always pissed me off. So there’s an understandably complicated relationship. It will get better with time – I think a real HOF thing at one of the home games over the next couple months (which has to be happening, right?) would do wonders.

    • lizmcneill

      What did he do at Wrigley? I mean, Toews brought the Cup to the Peg and the Jets have about no chance of seeing it in the next 5 years.

      • mad-hatter

        Five years is generous.

      • DesertHawk

        Toews and Cheli are entirely different. When Toews joined the league there was no Peg team. He didn’t leave that team (I don’t blame Cheli, but what can you do, fans are dumb sometimes) after being one of the few bright spots for many years, and most assuredly not after saying he’d never play for the “enemy”.

  • Commit88

    If any current Blackhawk went to Detroit, I’m not sure how I’d feel about them. Could I discount DK’s contributions to 2 Stanley Cups and 1 WCF appearance simply because he ended up playing more years in Det than in Chicago? I’m not sure, maybe.

    Great write up and I agree more people should care, but sadly, I was happy to see Chelios get into the HOF; however, I really didn’t care other than he got in. It was sort of like, hey, awesome man, pass the dinner rolls.

    It might be because I didn’t get really into the Blackhawks until right around the end of Chelios’ tenure in Chicago. Maybe that’s the reason. I still have to say I was one of those who boo’d Chelios in the years following the trade every Detroit – Chicago game I went to. And if I was at Chelios night, I would have boo’d him again. Something about going to Detroit was just unforgivable, especially the fact that he won Stanley Cups while our team was drowning for around a decade.

    I just remember Hawks fans always being angry, everyone got boo’d that went to another team as I remember. We hated Detroit. They were amused by our hatred it seemed when they came to the UC. They were just winning World Championships, and we couldn’t get into the playoffs. Maybe just unfortunate timing.

    I wasn’t aware that there was only 1 offer for Chelios. I sort of find that hard to believe, but I’ll take your word for it. It was just hard to see him on the best damn sports show saying, “anywhere..except Detroit, I’d never go there” and then he goes there.

    It’s just too bad the way things went down. I wish he woulda stuck around and I wish they had their renaissance earlier so he could be a part of it.

    • 10thMountainFire

      You make a good point on hatred for Scum. For those that came of age in the last decade and discovered the Hawks as they grew into their teens and twenties, the best analogy for how the 90s fans felt about Detroit is to analogize today’s hatred for Vancouver. In the 90s, Scum likely stopped the Hawks from multiple SCF appearances.

      • Paul the Fossil

        Starting with the 84-85 season we had the following playoff interactions with the Dread Wings:

        1985, a decent Hawks team (38-35-7) swept them 3-0 in first round; ended up losing 4-2 in the conf finals to the Gretzkies.

        1987, a bad Hawks team (29-37-14) got swept by the Wings in the first round.

        1989, a bad Hawks team (27-41-12) upset the Wings in the first round and then the Blues in the next round, ended up losing 4-1 to the Flames in the conf finals.

        1992, the Roenick/Chelios/Belfour Hawks swept the Wings in the second round as part of a record playoff winning streak, then lost in the SCF to the Marios. [Personal note: I was at that final game against Det and it was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had as a hockey fan.]

        1995 shortened season, a good Hawks team was beaten 4-1 in the conf finals by the Wings.

        And that was the last Hawks-Wings playoff series until 2009. Surprised me, had to doublecheck it, but it’s true.

        • 10thMountainFire

          So you saw the epic performance of Brent Sutter?

          • Paul the Fossil

            Indeed, I was seated in the second balcony at that end, he scored it right in front of us. For the remaining 5 minutes of that game the old place literally vibrated with a constant roar, it was like being inside a jet engine.

          • 10thMountainFire

            That was an incredible run… and it’s too bad the Pens were having the same success. Because that was one epic playoff season for us.

          • 1benmenno

            That was an epic regular season too. But Lemieux and Jagr . . . that’s hard to beat.

      • DesertHawk

        I’d say that should read early 90s. As a fan who came to the game in 96… Scum weren’t the ones keeping us out of contention.

        • 10thMountainFire

          Colorado…

          Yeah, but the hatred was magnified by our missing windows for a Cup in the early-to-mid 90s and we were all haters of Scum by ’97.

          • DesertHawk

            I always looked at Scum as more like, the team I wish my team could be like. I never really hated them, and it seemed like even our lackluster lineups back then stood up to play against them. So I looked forward to games against them, cause our boys would play some of their best hockey, and if we beat them it was at least a meager prize. “We may suck, but at least we beat Detroit, and they’re the best”.

          • 10thMountainFire

            You didn’t have a visceral hatred for Konstantinov, Ciccarelli, Kozlov, Pushor, and Probert?

          • DesertHawk

            Not particularly. I was 9. Watching the games in a house in Ellerslie, Georgia. The only person I talked to about the sport was my dad. I think not being raised in the city, with the cultural competitiveness between the cities (before Detroit tanked), is to some extent essential for the real Scum hatred.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Ah, well rest assured that I hated them all enough for the both of us.

          • DesertHawk

            I did hate the kids at my school in Georgia, who wore Detroit gear, but didn’t know shit about hockey. They angered me as a young suffering fan.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Kids in Georgia wearing Scum gear? That sounds like the last place in the world I need to visit.

          • DesertHawk

            Basically anyone who was into sports, was sorta aware of who the SC champs were. And since Detroit had a pretty good run there, the only hockey team gear you could find was for them. Lots of people bought it cause it “looked cool” and they had no idea what city/team/sport it was even for. Tres frustrating.

          • 10thMountainFire

            I can’t imagine having to look at that without hurting them.

          • laaarmer

            It is Cicarelli and the others. That and their success at hockey.

          • DesertHawk

            I think all of my potential hate of Detroit for their success circled back around at Wirtz. Even as a kid (thanks dad) I was aware of the fact that the only reason we weren’t competitive was because he was a money pincher.

          • Bobby Otter

            Don’t forget Primeau and McCarty.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Shit, Primeau. Yeah, fuck him.

          • laaarmer

            He was the worst of the bunch. Hated that guy.

          • 10thMountainFire

            I remember him dropping the gloves with Probert in practice once. Instantly hated him.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Chiasson…

          • Bobby Otter

            I hated them. Anyway, totally agree. This current Hawks team is pretty much what the Wings were in the ’90s. I held out hope that the Hawks would some how beat the Wings despite getting outshot 493-9. These Hawks I’m pretty confident they’re gonna win because they’re outshooting the other guys 493-13.

          • Waylon

            I hated SCUM because they were good, but also because I hated their “Red Army Line,” big bunch of talented A – Holes. SCUM basically stole them away from the USSR for nothing – got to give them credit for those kinds of machinations, though.

      • laaarmer

        I’m chuckling over the multiple SCF appearances.

        That’s Gold Jerry, Gold.

        • 10thMountainFire

          I think there’s a case to be made that Minnesota stopped them in 91 and Detroit in 95.

          • laaarmer

            Scum likely stopped the Hawks from multiple SCF appearances.

            You said it. I’m not making it up.

            No biggie, just funny. Yes funny you amuse me, not funny haha.

          • 10thMountainFire

            I misspoke. I’m doing three things right now and didn’t remember it was Minnesota during the President’s Trophy year and not Scum.

            I said, no more shines. Maybe you didn’t hear about it, you’ve been away a long time. They didn’t go up there and tell you. I don’t shine shoes anymore.

          • DesertHawk

            President Trophy year? I don’t remember being knocked out of the SCF during the Prez Trophy year… I do remember 17 glorious seconds.

            Let those bad memories slide away XMF.

          • 10thMountainFire

            NO!

            Jesus fuck. I misremembered that it was Detroit in 91 when it was actually Minnesota. Being knocked out that year could have kept us from the SCF.

          • laaarmer

            I don’;t care what you are doing. I just got a chuckle.

            Now lets talk about Sharp and that last goal

          • 10thMountainFire

            I’d rather talk about Saad.

          • laaarmer

            The play of Sharp on that shift made me Saad.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Stop it.

          • Accipiter

            Lost Cause.

          • laaarmer

            Yes, he is a lost cause.

          • lizmcneill

            He had to be demoted to play with Kane and Pirri, send them all to the Rock.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Can’t skate with 81 and 19.

          • 1benmenno

            Is he your personal clown?

    • Paul the Fossil

      Saying that he “went to” Detroit makes it sound like it was his choice. No matter how many trade offers Dollar Bill did or didn’t receive for Chelios, it was the owner who traded him. He was under contract and his only options became play for the Wings or stop playing. I find it impossible to blame a player for not choosing to stop playing.

      As the baseball writer Bill James once wrote it isn’t sensible or fair to judge a player regarding franchise/city loyalty until he has the opportunity to be a free agent. Stan Musial may or may not have been loyal to St. Louis or Ernie Banks to Chicago and etc.; we’ll never know because they never had any other choices but play there or stop playing.

  • lizmcneill

    Stamkos has a broken tibia and will require surgery – looks like he’s going to miss out on Team Canada again. This sucks.

    • 10thMountainFire

      That’s awful. Shitty.

      • lizmcneill

        it was just really awful to watch. He was obviously in so much pain.

        • 10thMountainFire

          That truly sucks. That’s definitely a loss for the league. Dude is fun to watch.

          • lizmcneill

            You know, we might have gotten lucky last year – remember Kaner losing an edge going round the back of the net? He spun round on his tummy three times and smacked his leg into the post, but it got him on the thigh and I don’t think he missed a shift. A foot lower and there might have been no Cup.

          • 10thMountainFire

            Dodged the proverbial bullet.

    • DesertHawk

      Surprised it was just his tibia, after seeing the .gif.

      • lizmcneill

        yeah, looked like it could have been tib + fib and maybe knee as well the way his leg twisted.

    • Bullitt315

      Wonder if that increases Sharpies chances.

      • lizmcneill

        What else does Canada have in the way of sniping wingers? I’m sad we don’t get to see Crosby-Stamkos, that would have been amazing.

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          Sucks for Stamkos but I do not feel the slightest remorse for Canadia.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            On account of your being a big huge jerk and dummy?

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Standing on god again, I see

          • Accipiter

            We do it for thee.

          • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

            I just screen-captured this, will hand it in to the authorities when my time comes. You’re going where it’s hot, boy-o.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            I’m already where it’s hot, friend-o.

          • 1benmenno

            Standing on Saad for thee.

          • Z-man19

            YOU CAN’T HAVE SAAD, HE’S ALL U. S. A

          • 1benmenno

            Pittsburgh is the Hamilton of the South.

          • Z-man19

            Take Pittsburgh, Saad stays

          • 1benmenno

            Chicago is the Winnipeg of the South, so I’ll take anyone I darn well please.

          • Z-man19

            Be careful, we might sneeze and annex most of Canada, save Montreal and Vancouver, Canada can keep those

          • Accipiter

            It really is.

          • 1benmenno

            Go get ‘em, Chico.

          • CozBullsFan

            Big huge jerk and dummy? Canadian credentials confirmed.

        • Bullitt315

          It’s Stamkos so not much that good. Love to see Sharp and toews on the same line.

    • Bob Lanz

      that sucks for the kid and team Canada… team USA however :)

  • mazer_rackham

    I literally get sad whenever I see a photo of Cheli in a wings jersey. He was our guy. It didn’t have to be that way. Sending him out of town was a defining moment in the Dollar Bill era. If you were too young or not a fan back then to experience it, I envy you.

    • flahawkfan

      I agree. It hurt so fucking bad that he went to the Wings. I remember that day, following the trade deadline online, fervently hoping Cheli wouldn’t get traded. And then he did. To the Wings. I loved Cheli. For me, he embodied everything a great hockey player is and should be. He had skill but he worked his ass off to make himself so much better, and damn that guy played with such a lovely edge, sometimes going over it (one of my fondest recollections is of watching Cheli shoot the puck at a Lightning player as Cheli was coming off the ice after warmups in Tampa because Cheli didn’t like the guy taking a shot at the Hawks’ goal). But I haven’t worn any of my #7 with a C sweaters since the day of the trade. I can’t say that I hate Chelios and it probably doesn’t make any sense but all I can say is that I was going through my hope chest (yeah, I know, but it was my Mom’s) over the weekend and saw my Cheli sweaters in there and the sadness of that day came flooding back. I didn’t like Wirtz before that day but afterward he lost me. I still loved the Hawks, as awful as they were, but IMO Wirtz killed that team and the fact that Cheli won Cups with the Wings made it all the worse.

      So it’s complicated for me, and probably stupid and senseless but as a great friend of mine once said, you can’t help the way you feel.

      • Joe Banks

        You pretty much summed up why people are silent during his HOF induction. It brings up very painful memories. Too painful.

      • Waylon

        Dollar Bill effectively killed off A LOT of great Hawks teams, that was just his last hatchet job of note. There was a reason why The Blue Line was so popular among fans of a certain intelligence, and they really stuck it to the old man, when hardly anyone else in the press would.

    • Bob Lanz

      heartbreaking for many reasons… letting a Chicagoan go to scum hurt bad.

  • laaarmer

    I like Magnuson. He was my favorite player back in his time. Not because he was a good player, but because he would fight anybody. Why does his name come up in this conversation? As far as dmen go, Suter was better than him.

    Chelios and Wilson. Lets see Chelios play without a helmet and do as well as Wilson. Maybe he would?

    Chelios is still my favorite all time Hawk.

    • DesertHawk

      Sometimes… I forget how old you are. And then you talk about guys playing with no helmet, and I remember. Suffice to say, I’m glad you’re not one of those internet un-savvy old folks. It’s cool to hear about things I’ll never see from people who were there/watched them.

      • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

        Eh? What? I remember when phones had cords! Can ye fathom it?

        • 1benmenno

          And we liked it!

          • Z-man19

            No shit, you didn’t have to go searching for the damn phone. I’ve got 4 cordless phones in this house and I’m lucky if I can find one of the fucking things.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Who uses land lines anymore? I have a cellphone and that is all I need or want to be reached on.

          • laaarmer

            You need a land line to escape the matrix.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            But the Matrix has STEAK. Delicious, juicy steak. Fuck off, laaarmer. I turning you in.

          • laaarmer

            Good bye Mr. Anderson.

          • 1benmenno

            Anderson Tapes?

          • Joe Banks

            You need a landline to call your cellphone when it falls under the couch!

          • 1benmenno

            The first cell phones were as big as a couch.

          • CozBullsFan
          • 1benmenno

            Slick.

          • Z-man19

            You don’t have kids and a wife who frets over the kids’ ability to make calls in case of emergency

          • DesertHawk

            Cell phones can make emergency calls…

          • Joe Banks

            But can you convince Z-man’s wifey?

          • DesertHawk

            I can only rarely convince my own wifey… convincing another man’s wifey seems like an impossible task.

          • Joe Banks

            So much to lose, so little to gain. Kind of like the Kobayashi Maru (which comes to mind so often when dealing with “spousal” communications)

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            You think that’s hard? Try teaching your own wifey to snowboard.

          • DesertHawk

            I’m trying to convince her to play a table top RPG…

          • 1benmenno

            Try teaching someone else’s wifey to snowboard.

          • Accipiter

            That is a mistake.

          • Z-man19

            Only if the towers are up and they have power. Complete doomsday scenario but we are prepared

          • DesertHawk

            If the towers have fallen, and they don’t have power… I think emergency services might be a bit overwhelmed.

          • Z-man19

            I’ve had this discussion already, reliving it is not healthy

          • DesertHawk

            I’m sorry sir. You have my condolences.

          • Z-man19

            get used to losing discussions DH, it makes things easier

          • DesertHawk

            I weigh the importance early, and just don’t have them if it’s not worth it. It’s a trait the military taught me.

        • DesertHawk

          We had a corded phone for a bit, when I was a kid.

          • laaarmer

            Slimline?

          • DesertHawk

            Ours was a hideous beige color, but pretty much.

          • Joe Banks

            I remember when the Slimline phone was introduced! You had a choice of colors! (instead of black or white)

      • Waylon

        you should’ve seen Mags when he launched his body to block shots – back then it took real courage to do that, he took one slapshot that broke his entire face open. Blood like you wouldn’t believe on the ice.

      • 1benmenno

        Sometimes I forget how young you are. I remember when hockey players played with codpieces and George Washington wigs. (Why do you think old Georgie had wooden teef?)

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          oral gonorrhea?

        • DesertHawk

          For a stretch back when on SCH I was the youngest commenter. It’s been a few years now, I don’t think I can lay claim to that title any longer.

    • Accipiter

      I don’t think the helmet/no helmet thing changes anything.

      • laaarmer

        First off, he doesn’t hit Propp if he is not wearing a helmet. and if you drink your MIO, it changes everything.

        • Accipiter

          Maybe. Doug Wilson might have sucked if he wore a helmet.

          • laaarmer

            You are probably right, we would never have seen his giant hair.

      • Waylon

        Having seen them both play in person, I’d have to agree. DW was a fine D – Man, but my friends and I went apeshit over the trade of Savy for Cheli. We’d seen Cheli play when he came up with the Canadians, and knew how good he was. And while we loved Savy, we knew that Cheli was the player the Hawks needed at that time, desperately. I bet Cheli would love to have had a do – over with some of his playoff performances, particularly the one where he took every stupid – shit penalty available. Completely lost his collective mind out there. Oh well.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Gary Suter really was a great addition to that team. Is it possible to see more of Suter in Keith than Chelios?

      • laaarmer

        I thought Smith was going to be better too, but while he was pretty good, he wasn’t.

        I Iiked the way Suter played.

        • 10thMountainFire

          I also liked Steve Smith. He was a very good defenseman with maybe not the offensive stats we expected but valuable nonetheless.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            5 & 7 is still my favorite D pairing of all time

          • 10thMountainFire

            I always liked Smitty.

          • Why

            I like #2 and #7 better. But fair enough.

          • 1benmenno

            Steve Smith: I’ll always remember him for scoring an own goal as a rookie for the Oilers, eliminating his team in overtime against the Flames. Then next year, Gretzky handing him the Cup first. Next to that, my favorite handoff was Toews to Hossa in 2010.

          • 10thMountainFire

            When Toews started yelling ‘Where’s Hoss?! Where’s Hoss?!’ and Hossa was right next to him, it was like when you act like you don’t see your dog and start calling his/her name… and they start jumping up and down trying to tell you ‘I’m right here! Gimme the ball!’

        • Accipiter

          Suter and his cross-check to the face of Kariya ….

          • 10thMountainFire

            Yeah that was pretty shitty.

          • laaarmer

            Any number of Chelios plays……

    • http://www.lotsofbutterplease.com/ I am not Chico Maki

      Good call on Magnuson. That guy had nuts like few other hockey players. His fight record doesn’t read a whole lot differently, though, than it would have if he had just closed his eyes and kept his arms at his sides.

    • Bob Lanz

      Cheli is still my favorite too, along with JR. I found hockey and the Hawks right before JR’s rookie year and loved 18 and 28 so much. I always admired Dougie and the dmen. 7 was my first sweater it also happens to be my fave even today just with biscut on the back. Bonus Cheli is American and like Edzo and Amonte a Chicagoan. Congrats on the Hall nod and looking forward to when I see more of you at the madhouse you helped build!

  • Bobby Otter

    This is fun to watch. I’m more of a fan of Game 4. Also Keith Carney and Eric Weinrich sightings!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBjbWyBuuPA

    • 10thMountainFire

      I remember a brawl with Scum Jr where the entire Blues roster went after Carney, JR came to his rescue, and someone let Probie loose. Then as he was leaving a fan in the stands hit Probert with a beer cup.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Also… Joe Murphy!

      • laaarmer

        He went to MSU while I was there. I would say he was not a interested student.

        • 10thMountainFire

          Figures.

          I’m a Blue fan.

          • laaarmer

            Hate to be Brady Hoke right now.
            He’s a good coach, but jeebus, they are not playing like they should.

            GO BLOW!

          • 10thMountainFire

            Still have my home Blue sweater… from when I was in high school. It still fits.

            If I can find an NIU hockey sweater, I’m golden.

          • Joe Banks

            I was looking to see if your mythical NIU jersey could be had, and I came across this NIU Hockey article written by… GUESS WHO???

            http://niuhockey.com/index.php/news/latest-news/1-latest-news/237-real-huskies-wear-pink–game-jerseys-to-be-auctioned-off.html

          • 10thMountainFire

            That’s awesome! Thanks, Kim… and Joe.

          • Joe Banks

            I thought he was governor of New Jersey?

          • laaarmer

            doppelganger?

          • Joe Banks

            For a minute there, I thought you said Blues fan… don’t ever do that again!

          • Z-man19

            Blue fan just slightly better

          • laaarmer

            Wal Mart Wolverines unite!

        • cliffkoroll

          we’re happy for ya.

          • laaarmer

            Yeah, I knew it would be you.

          • Z-man19

            Got a mouse in your pocket?

          • 10thMountainFire

            If that’s a Terry Boers reference, fuck that.

          • Bob Lanz

            actually more of a Dan McNeil reference

          • 10thMountainFire

            Then I’ll allow it.

          • Country_Bumpkin

            Button #28 I believe.

      • bizarrohairhelmet

        I can still name that entire squad.

        • 1benmenno

          They can identify you in a police lineup.

  • adelfiacco

    Popular opinion: Chris Chelios fucking ruled. STILL rules.

  • VanDorp’sMullet

    One the one hand, I always thought Cheli was a bit of a meatheat and his DUIs seem to confirm that, but on the other hand, he was also one of my favorite Hawks players and absolutely the best Hawks Dman of my lifetime. Keith is a fine, fine player, but to be honest, I don’t think he’s even in the conversation. Cheli was tougher, stronger, a better lockdown d-man, and even had more offensive chops. It sucks that he isn’t being recognized by the local media at all.

  • Joe Banks

    Chelios is one of the best ever. The lack of press over his HOF induction sucks. It’s just weird. Like locking the strange kid in the basement.
    A lot of talk here about great Hawks defensemen. How about a little love for Whitey Stapleton and (former Hawks coach) Bill White?

    • Waylon

      Stapleton was awesome, as was Pappin. Much of the current fanbase has no idea of how many good to great players played for the Hawks of yore.

  • laaarmer

    Just went to the store and a little guy in a little car thought he tied me at the stop sign. Fuck him, I went 1st.

    • Z-man19

      Old guy in a golf cart I’m guessing

      • Joe Banks

        Hey! I’m right here!

        • 1benmenno

          It’s okay Banksy. I think he was talking about me.

          • Z-man19

            do you live near laaarmer?

          • 1benmenno

            Not geographically, but you can find us next each on a timeline

    • Bullitt315

      He still got one point.

      • laaarmer

        No, he lost because I went 1st. That is the stat that I am keeping. It doesn’t matter if you tie or not, if you arrive at the stop sign at the same time, the guy on the right goes first, unless the person just stares at you with mouth open and does nothing. Then they lose. This stop sign situation is really bad over her in West Michigan. People race to the sign and then they fucking sit there and stare at you. Fuckers.

        • bizarrohairhelmet

          Its pre-season. There are no points in pre-season.The real driving season starts 11/29

  • bizarrohairhelmet

    I don’t generally do the jersey thing. It feels silly to me to openly idolize someone who is younger than me and is only known for playing sports. The few jerseys I’ve had were blank, also for that reason. Except I do have a red #7 with appropriate nameplate from 21 or so years ago. While #27 was my favorite player at the time, #7 was all that was Blackhawks. While I certainly enjoy this current team above any other group I’ve watched, they’re a great group of players that play as the Blackhawks. It’s quite a different thing to be a Blackhawk with the entire history the organization entails. Chelios was the most Blackhawk player I’ve seen play and a major reason I became a fan so many years ago and so many miles away.

    • Accipiter

      I got the Griswold double zeros jersey.

  • cliffkoroll

    I don’t get the hate, and the boos, even if just a smattering, are an embarrassment. Eddie O gets booed some too. He’s no Chelios but there’s some weird strain that affects some Hawk fans, causing decades-long grudges. Too bad, and I don’t think it’s healthy.

    • 10thMountainFire

      Meatballery.

      • 1benmenno

        Mmmmm. Meatballs.

        • 10thMountainFire

          Swedish.

          • 1benmenno

            I was thinking klops. A Menno thing, but like Danish/Swedish balls.

    • Waylon

      perhaps it has more to do with jealousy over former players going on to win rings while the Hawks went into a long death spiral of mediocrity. I don’t get it, either, since while it pained me to see those guys shipped out for nothing, they all deserved to win their rings based on their play. I mean, how could anyone begrudge Laarmer?

  • AMR

    I guess I am not all that excited about it because they announced the inductees so long ago that I had thought they had already been inducted. Its hard for me to get excited about something that has already been announced. It would be like if the NHL announced the winners of all the trophies mid-season and then held a ceremony after the playoffs.

  • laaarmer
    • 1benmenno

      Gimme that old time religion, Ezekiel. It’s good enuff for me.

  • 1benmenno

    I think I’m older than laaarmer and cliff–my first piece of Blackhawks paraphernalia was a Pierre Pilote marble scrounged from the bottom of a Cheerios box.

    • DesertHawk

      THINK OF THE KIDS!! THE POOR CHOKING KIDS!!!!!!

      • 1benmenno

        Don’t cereal companies include prizes anymore? Or do you have to mail boxtops to North Battleford, Michigan?

        • DesertHawk

          I think they do, from what I remember from my yout though, they usually came wrapped in something, and were never small enough to be ingested.

          • Z-man19

            you’re like 10 years from youth, Ben has ear hair older than you

          • DesertHawk

            Depending on what we’re counting as youth, it could be less than ten honestly.

          • Z-man19

            Shit, I think I have ear hair older than you

          • DesertHawk

            I was 9 when I started following the Hawks, in 1996. I retired last November after 7 years in the AF, I enlisted as soon as I was able. Word problems! You aughta be able to figure out my age to your ear hair age ratio based off of the above. :P

          • Z-man19

            I’ll have an answer as soon as I find my abacus, meanwhile, GET OFF MY FUCKING LAWN

          • 1benmenno

            Return the abacus when you’re done. I’m done being your Flanders.

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Do you know where that abacus has been? I doubt you’ll want it back.

          • 1benmenno

            I don’t what Z was doing but he crashed it.

          • CozBullsFan

            I’m sure our ancestors are rolling over in their graves over this. The first calculator created by man and someone has turned it into a sex toy. haha

          • 1benmenno

            Have you seen what they do with beads these days? You used to be able to buy Manhattan with them.

          • CozBullsFan

            Yes. To think that beads were some of the most valuable items to posses. Not their intended purpose when invented. lol

          • Z-man19

            Crisis made us all aware

          • 1benmenno

            Aware of . . .? I missed the XMF takedown.

          • Z-man19

            Uh no. He suggested he was going to use the beads on my wife. Thought it was funny. Forget what game it was

          • 1benmenno

            Crisis should know better. Anything can happen in the deep dark woods.

          • Z-man19

            The TCI community gave him an earful, he’s not the sharpest twig in the brush

          • 1benmenno

            No, he is not.

          • CozBullsFan

            That’s an unnecessary put down of twigs lacking sharpness. At least they have a purpose. They provide energy needed to keep the bush alive. One sharp twig can’t support the bush by itself. It’s a group effort.

          • Joe Banks

            I’ve never seen anyone so incapable of getting a clue, kind of like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory.

          • Joe Banks

            Bears shit there

          • Country_Bumpkin

            Then they go on injured reserve

          • bizarrohairhelmet

            Something tells me you’re not going to enjoy the Sex in the City episode featuring ENIAC.

          • CozBullsFan

            Probably wouldn’t. That said, I’ve never seen an episode of the show.

          • 1benmenno

            Is it Big?

          • Z-man19

            I told you to stop drinking all the damn prison wine, you’re lucky I didn’t take your sundial too

          • 1benmenno

            You couldn’t read anything that’s not digital, whippersnapper.

          • Joe Banks

            Upboat for Abacus reference… those never get OLD!

          • CozBullsFan

            I started following them around that time too. Only followed them because my schoolmate and friend was my neighbor. I really only got to see hockey games in Canada when I visited my Mom’s side of the family. As those were Leafs games. Saw my first game in 83 when I was 2.

          • DesertHawk

            My parents were still in HS in 83. Yeah the Thrashers brought with them a horde of minor league (like super minor league) teams. We got one in our city, dad took me to the first game, seats right on the boards. I was hooked. From there he started my edumacation. Now I keep him up to speed on things with the team. Kind of like him introducing me to PCs, he introduced, now I am the one who helps him out with things he needs to know.

          • 1benmenno

            Did your dad ever watch Slapshot?

          • DesertHawk

            He and my 2 uncles quote it at each other all the time. He also has a Chiefs’ jersey. As well as the McFarlane figures. I’d say he’s a fan.

          • CozBullsFan

            My grandfather took me to my first game. Was quite an experience for me. It was hard to follow hockey living in the middle of nowhere in Illinois. My friend was the only other person I knew that followed hockey. Playing hockey on the frozen canals was amazing.

          • DesertHawk

            In middle school a kid from Philly moved in across the street. We’d play roller hockey. Our friend from down the road who had muscular dystrophy was our goalie. Yes… we shot rubber balls/pucks at a kid in a wheel chair.

          • CozBullsFan

            At least you took the time to include him, even if he was the goalie. That was probably the highlight of his day.

          • DesertHawk

            We got in a fight one time(a full on donny brook). He ran me over in his wheel chair, while the kid from Philly was pile-driving me, it was… an interesting experience. I moved before the age of Facebook and the like, based off of how advanced his illness was when we were just kids, I doubt he’s still around. He was a good kid though. Fought off many a one-timer with his golf club.

          • CozBullsFan

            Haha. He had the mentality of a hockey player despite his physical problems. He was probably more proficient at holding on to his stick than Crow is.

          • DesertHawk

            Indeed he did.

          • 1benmenno

            I used to play pickup soccer against a team that had a one-legged guy who played on crutches. He was a bit like Kane, in that he cherry-picked. For some reason, he didn’t like running from one end of the field to the other. He had a mighty swing of a shot. Destroyed goalkeeper’s nuts on more than one occasion.
            Turned out he was a high jumper in the special Olympics; held the world record for years.

          • DesertHawk

            Nifty.

          • Joe Banks

            So you’re the same age as my kids…

          • DesertHawk

            Mayhaps.

          • 1benmenno

            You have ear wax old enough for young Abe Lincoln to read his law books by.

          • 1benmenno

            I pluck. So pluck you and your ageism.

          • DesertHawk

            Poor ear hairs, cut down in their prime.

          • 1benmenno

            Some of my ear hairs are registered as national treasures, like the sequoias of California.

        • laaarmer

          You know what the name of the rink in Battle Creek is?

          The rink. It is a fucking shit hole dump with shit hole living assholes at it. But I digress.
          I loved the toys in the cereal boxes, and the sugar.

          • 1benmenno

            Was it Battle Creek? Toys and sugar: Good times.

        • Z-man19

          do you not shop?

          • 1benmenno

            I eat steel cut oats for breakfast. The only prize: colonic regularity

          • Z-man19

            steel cut? I’m guessing rolled oats unless you ginsu them yourself

          • 1benmenno

            Rolled oats are for oldsters like Wilfred Brimley.

          • Z-man19

            steel cut is for OLDSTERS like Moses?

          • 1benmenno

            Either way, it’s the right thing to do.

          • Z-man19

            so it’s like manna?

          • 1benmenno

            You wanna go? Let’s take our helmet off at the same time.

          • Z-man19

            I better give you a 10 second head start ;)

          • 1benmenno

            I’ll get my ho to pour beer all over your sorry kopf.

          • Joe Banks

            Get off my lawn!

        • Joe Banks

          Battle Creek, Michigan! – If you were old, you’d know that!

          • 1benmenno

            I get Battle Creek, Michigan, mixed up with North Battleford, Saskatchewan, because that’s what an old senile Canadian would do.

          • Joe Banks

            LOL

  • 1benmenno

    In 1961, Bobby Hull was 22 and Stan Mikita was 21. Younger than Toews and Kane when they won the Cup in 2010. Blackhawks fans were expecting multiple SCF wins and were right to do so. We are blessed.

    • 1benmenno

      Totally irrevelant, I know. But I still marvel at our current streak of good luck, given that we can also boast HOFers like Chelios.

    • mad-hatter

      Actually they were the same age. Toews had just turned 22 that April, and Kane was 21 that past November.

    • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

      That team may well have won more cups if not for the one small obstacle known as the Montreal Canadiens.

  • Chuck Miller

    Hawk fans should all have a bowl of chili today and thank God we all had a chance to see CC play.
    I was there the night he was honored and never wear the hat.

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    I was convinced that team would win a cup. The disappointment, while still bitter, has made the last four years all the sweeter.

  • 334Rules

    I’ve never understood the bitterness towards Cheli. Of course I boo’d the shit out of him when he skated in wearing the winged wheel, but I’d have boo’d the shit out of Mother Teresa if she showed up in a Wings sweater. And this story is absolutely right: Chelios was indeed the very best defenseman in Hawks history.

  • doc

    Magneson was not a very good player (think the D equivilent of Andrew Shaw – a minimally serviceable player with amazing heart and a really, really good person). As to the fighting, he did it a lot, but not well.
    Bless his soul…he was a wonderful person, but his legend as a Hawk really wasn’t based upon high caliber of play or great talent.