Beneath The Trees Where Nobody Sees Stan Will Have His Picnic

Never let it be said that the Hawks aren’t completely aware of how to manipulate reaction to stuff like this, because I don’t think it’s any coincidence that they dumped the news of Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns getting dealt to Dallas (where Johns can pound on all their forwards for the next decade five times a year) for Ryan Garbutt and Trevor Daley. Nice try Stan, but we’re always watching.

There’s so many factors in this I’m not sure where to start, so I’ll go player by player. We knew Sharp was likely to go, even after Saad had to be tossed overboard because the math didn’t work with both Sharp and Oduya. No one expected a great return on Sharp, but I can’t help but think Stan Bowman overplayed his hand a bit here. While we won’t ever know what exactly was on offer before and at the draft, we know that there were discussions with several teams while Stan reportedly chased a 1st and a prospect. What he ended up with was an aging, one-way d-man (and not the right way) and a middle aged 4th liner, and he had to toss in Stephen Johns for the privilege of that. Would a 2nd and a 3rd round pick really have been any worse?

The discussions about Sharp are all well known to everyone at this point. I don’t think he’s on a full-out decline, and I think he’ll rebound next year, but he can see it from where he is. In the Iginla model, he’s become more and more of a one-dimensional sniper who really doesn’t get his own shot anymore. And he’s expensive at that. The 200-foot game has been eroding for a while (so he’ll be perfect under Ruff in Dallas). We’ll have much more on Sharp’s career next week, because it really deserves its own post (if not like four).

I suppose we can’t ignore the “Sharp in the room” factor, though it’s impossible to gauge where that actually is. I’ll say this, Sharp stopped playing center basically because Sharp wanted to stop playing center. Maybe that’s some insight into what we’re dealing with, but I again I don’t know how big of a factor that is.

Moving on to Johns, that’s what really baffles. They can’t have soured on him simply because he got hurt a couple times this season. He was not injury prone at Notre Dame, and it’s not like he missed time with a serious of pulled muscles. They were kind of freak injuries. And he was the most surefire young d-man to help the blue line not have the team meal be mush. The Hawks constantly talk about how their system will help them sustain and replace pieces they have to lose with younger, cheaper talent. But they keep tossing that talent overboard. It’s now Stanton, Clendening, Leddy, Dahlbeck, and Johns, and basically what they have to show for it is a quarter season of Vermette, Ville Pokka who is not going to be on the team this year it looks like, and Trevor Daley and Ryan Garbutt. The cupboard on the blue line also appears to be completely bare other than Pokka, and he doesn’t project as much more than useful.

Ok, so for what’s coming back. Let’s start with Daley. He’ll be exciting, in that things will happen when he’s on the ice. And that’s at both ends, which isn’t good. While he becomes possibly the most offensively dynamic d-man the Hawks have behind the top pairing (and maybe even more so), he simply does not have a clue when he gets into his own half. Which is ok, because he’s rarely in that half of the ice. Oh wait, that’s not ok. He’s a complete cowboy who will create a fair few goals but will also create a fair few more for the opposition. His possession numbers are downright ugly, and that’s on a good possession team in Dallas. He’s been a negative relative Corsi player five of the past six years, and that’s with reasonable zone starts. Granted, he’s never had a partner as solid as Hjalmarsson or Seabrook as he might get here, but they’re going to be bailing an awful lot of water.

As for Garbutt, he’s a bottom six asshat winger who is not without his use. However, Garbutt’s possession numbers are not half bad when you consider he, Eakin, and Roussel were taking the worst of the zone starts and competition. If Shaw is moved up to the third line, he’s not the worst guy to have with Desjardins and Kruger.

Ah yes, Kruger and Oduya. Where does this leave them? The Stars are eating half of Garbut’s salary, so the Hawks have 2.5 million more space than they did. Except they still only have 900K of space or so. Bickell and Versteeg look completely immovable (and someone might want to ask if a buyout was considered on either), but the Hawks still need to get them gone if they’re going to bring the Happy Swedes back. I’m sure both have been told what the Hawks plan to offer if they have the space, but when is that going to be, pray tell?

If the Hawks can squeeze them both back, then Daley as a third pairing rusher works a lot better than him on the top four. It’s the Nick Leddy role, and one he was born to play. It would leave the Hawks with a far deeper defense than they ever had last season. If Oduya or someone similar is not brought in, then Daley on the top four is going to cause antacid sales to skyrocket in the Chicago area, and most of that will be being bought by Q.

I guess we have to wait until the set is complete. There’s obviously more to this and we’ll find out in the coming weeks. As of right now, the Hawks just tossed their best defensive prospect onto the side of the road and have gotten older. I just don’t know.


  • Tim N

    900k space but they can live 10% above, no? Is that enough to sign Krugs now?

    • HarryBalzonya

      They could have technically signed him before this trade. The issue is once you are over the cap, every team knows that you have to dump salary and you get absolutely hosed on the trades since you have no leverage.

      • Joe Banks

        And the difference we would notice is?

        Has StanBow lost his freaking mind?

        • GoldenJet

          Yes…he’s lost his mind.

          See you at the next parade within the next 2 years.

    • Petie Kualidedi

      10% above the cap is allowed until the first regular season game. They must be under the real cap by opening face off on October 7th.

  • Jimnhlnut

    But they keep tossing that talent overboard. It’s now Stanton, Clendening, Leddy, Dahlbeck, and Johns, and basically what they have to show for it is a quarter season of Vermette, Ville Pokka who is not going to be on the team this year it looks like, and Trevor Daley and Ryan Garbutt.

    And a 2015 Stanley Cup parade, etc.

    • ‘hawks58

      Right. Of all the defensemen listed, only Leddy has proven to be more than a #7, and that was so a good trade because he would have had to go this summer anyway. What we know right now is we got a 3rd pair defenseman and 4th longer in exchange for a prospect that the organization must have been much less high on than the fan base and a 3rd line winger.

      You would think a 2nd round pick would be better, but maybe they didn’t think Johns would be able to handle the nhl this year

      • lizmcneill

        Sharp isn’t a 3rd line winger with Saad gone. He’ll rebound in Dallas. We got a 3rd pairing defensive liability and a budget Shaw and still don’t have the space for Kruger.

        • Black JEM

          Would love to know what if any deals for Sharp were turned down around the draft. That seems to be what we don’t know. If there was no market for Sharp – and with a 71M cap instead of something approaching 80M as I think the Hawks and others were projecting a while back, there is less money for a declining 5.9M aged winger over two years. If I think Saad’s contract in Columbus can become a problem if he doesn’t make the next step (a truthful observation) how valuable is Sharp?

          Probably more to come that we haven’t seen yet. If Stan overplayed his hand last week – then we can go after him. But maybe he had no hand to play with at all.

          • Shooter

            Sharp also had the ability to nix some of the potential teams yeah? So that may have limited who was available. I have to imagine this set of trades isn’t over.

          • Jim

            It seems like unloading sharp for some picks (who cares where), and retaining Oduya and Kruger would have been better than this. Nobody knows what was on the table on draft day. Nobody wanted Sharp’s cap hit, and I can’t blame anyone for that, I wouldn’t want it either. You can get young fast wingers for 1-3M.

          • Hockey Newbie

            I usually try not to overreact to these types of trades immediately because that is 99% emotion and less than 1% rational thought. I usually fail that that though unfortunately. I am giving Stanbo the benefit of the doubt until ALL the trades are done ,as maybe this is a precursor, and who really knows what was on the table besides this, at the draft, etc. Even though we took more salary back then hoped for, we did save approximately 2.7 this year AND NEXT too. Not a lot but a start. Here is hoping that Stanbo can still work some magic, by opening up more room to sign Oduya (2 yrs. or less) and Freddy, and possibly getting some more room by flipping guys for picks. Fingers crossed.

          • lizmcneill

            1.7M. Sharp is 5.9, Daley is 3.3 and Garbutt 0.9.

          • Hockey Newbie

            if we consider that Johns was going to play, he was almost a mil a year I believe

        • Pilotefan

          I agree, Sharp will rebound.
          Rosival and Timonen were defensive liabilities without the offensive upside. Maybe Stanbo packages Daley with Bickell or Versteeg. The first two would gain $7.3 mil in cap, enough for Kruger and Oduya.
          It ain’t over yet.

        • Jim

          I have to think another shoe is going to drop here, this can’t be it.

        • cza

          He might, he might not. I’m inclined to think he stays about the same, at best. If he does happen to rebound, I imagine some of it will be due to intangibles (change of scenery and something to prove) that wouldn’t have occurred had he stayed.

    • Joe Banks

      Yeah… parades are nice. Some cities get parades, others only get to PLAN them…

  • Jim

    How about we trade Rosival and Versteeg to Dallas for Jamie Benn and their top defensive prospect? We can eat half of Rosival’s salary…. wait what?

  • CurvedBlade

    Some of these guys cap may be dumped by putting them on waivers, and sending down to rockford if they clear. Kind of brutal, but a last option if the the cap can’t be met.

  • Jimnhlnut

    And to whom to you give the “A” (for Alternate Captain) ?

    Seabrook has worn it most recently. I think we were resting Keith on the last game of the season? Hossa has worn it in the past, also. I think maybe even Oduya has worn it a couple years ago when we rested many on last day. (Jamel Mayers wore an “A” on his last (Game) day in a Chicago uniform, too.)

    Refs would hate it if Shaw was actually given permission to talk to them…he would not shut up!

    My vote is Seabiscuit.

    • Oilcandroid

      I’d like to see it go to Kruger

      • Joe Banks

        But will the Refs understand WTF he’s saying?

    • GoldenJet

      It’s Biscuit…that’s it.

    • DJ

      Seabrook. End of discussion.

  • merkinmuffy

    A defenseman who puts up as many minutes on ice as Brent Seabrook and puts up more goals than Duncan Keith??? I’ll take him!!!

  • Jimnhlnut

    Marcus K on the Depth Chart still….Ebony is not…

    • Jimnhlnut

      Should be room for Morin on the left side now, right, Q?

    • T.M.

      Kruger’s a RFA and Oduya’s an UFA. that’s why

  • Sparky_The_Bard-barian

    A well reasoned, perhaps even overly optimistic, article with no hint of ledge jumping. Thank you.

  • DJ

    Barring whatever trades follow, I’d guess our first pick in next year’s draft has to be a defenseman. Unless there’s a young d-man in Europe we can sign in a similar fashion to Panarin. Time to re-stock.

  • TitanTransistor

    Terrible trade.

    On the plus side, a top-10 pick wouldn’t kill this franchise the year after going 3 in 6, right?

    • Björn


    • PrisonedMuffin

      Except that won’t happen because this team will probably still be a playoff team next year

      • 60MinutesBaby60

        @PrisonedMuffin – Your Sir or Miss possess imho the nametag of the year.

        I imagine doing time in any *joint* (prison vernacular appropriated w/o ANY actual first hand experience THANK GOD) has gotta be tough but doing so as a baked good gotta be extra trying.

        Be strong bro and may your spirit if not your yeast keep rising.

  • Aaeismacgychel

    I knew Sharp had far less value than the original projections, but what the hell happened? The only way we could trade him is by taking back $4.2M in salary on a bottom 6 winger and a bottom pairing defenseman AND by trading our top defensive prospect? What the hell is that? So basically what is being said is that nobody wanted Sharp on their team and the only way they’d do it is by getting a top prospect and getting cap relief? We couldn’t of even given Sharp away for a 6th round pick? Or for free? We had to give up Johns too on a team lacking defensive depth? What the hell happened? And to a team in our division? This trade makes no sense at all. None.

    • Jim

      I’ve had a chance to let the trade sink in, and still don’t feel much better about it. Sharps market value closer to 2M/Year. I think Daley can be a more serviceable Roszival replacement. Skates better and can start the rush, and has a mean streak. Q may be able to whip him into shape defensively.

      • CurvedBlade

        They’ve been trying to trade Sharp for 2 years now. He had a lousy season, possibly hitting the wall. So his value was very little. Stan was in a bind. Every GM knows that and is not anxious to help out.

        We will have a good team next season. If we can somehow keep Kruger and Oduya we will be playoff competitive. Sharp and Johns would have had very little impact on this. They were expendable. Let’s stay positive.

        • cza


  • HawkeyTalk

    Two deals go down (CBJ+DAL) and Stan could not package Bickell in either of them?! I don’t think he’s trying hard enough to get rid of our color blind winger! Ask PHL to take Bickell for a 2016 pick…. they like tough guys out in bell city. Oduya is a fool waiting this long. He’s gonna end up with the short stick if he keeps waiting. IMO Stan screwed this trade up as we got a bad return. Instead of getting young D men to join the big club we have old man part two! Oh that’s right Q-ball doesn’t want to take the time to train up those young D men! He’d rather have an old veteran D….aka Rozsival etc. GO HAWKS!

    • Jim

      Bickell is a big guy who doesn’t use his size to his advantage, below average skater, doesn’t finish, has bad knees, vertigo, and 2 weak seasons/post seasons behind him at 4M. I don’t want him either.

      But he has a mean wrister (into the goalies mid section from the circle) and had that goal against the Bruins in Game 6.

      • 60MinutesBaby60

        Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?

    • By the grace of Hossa

      Honestly,I think Oduya has a contract already made out with the Hawks and he’s waiting to sign it but cant until they dump more salary.Otherwise it would have put the Hawks over the 10% above the cap during the off season that is allowed. Do you guys really think Oduya is gonna sit there and wait this out and possibly have turned down offers from other teams w/o some kind of offer on the table. I doubt it.

      • 60MinutesBaby60

        Your take makes sense (to me anyway) and I want to buy into it, but imho NEITHER of these two trades has made sense.

        All I needed was Panarin I mean I thought / think he’ll be a real plus so any / all trades woulda/shoulda been to clear cap space NOT bring in (relatively) *old* bodies.

        But hey I ain’t Scotty Bowman’s kid or have even coached 1 NHL win.

        This offseason ain’t lighting my fire tho for real. HA I KNOW my comment sounds like bitching FER CRISSAKES we’re 3 weeks into Day With the Cup parties. 😉

        • Rustyw

          I assume this GM looked high and low for a better deal, but it just was not there. In fact, some Dallas fans thought they should not have made this trade!

          Could the Hawks have just dumped Sharp for picks? Apparently not, since they didn’t! But maybe Bowman held out for too much earlier and lived to regret it. Doubt they will ever tell us.

          Right now, it looks like 2010 all over again. But that was the idea of the cap, level the field. Hawks have brilliantly overcome it twice before, and don’t forget, they were an OT goal away form the Cup last year! Great owner and GM, solid HC.

      • Doog

        Are there rules against signing a player but not announcing that the deal has been done? Stan’s negotiating leverage would go down if other teams knew exactly how much he needed to trim, so it could benefit the ‘Hawks to remain mum even if they have signed a player.

  • HawkeyTalk

    The immediate need to win again has overwritten the longer term situation….as far as the D corps goes. The continual throwing out young D men will bite them in 2 to 5 years when Keith and Seabrook wane. Geez already Keith is getting smoked on the back check by Hossa and Toews… The writing is on the wall Stan! Can you read it? Only way this changes if a new coach arrives. Clearly Q has no intention of dealing with young D who need some initial hand holding out of Rockford. Maybe Kaner steps up and takes the “A” this year? What say 88?

    • wardrums

      Seabrook would definitely be my first choice, but if you have both paired together it’s a bit redundant – he does deserve it. (Remember when he talked to Toews in the penalty box to calm him down in 2013!
      Kane wouldn’t be a bad choice I suppose – or Hjarmal’s

  • wardrums

    Take a chill pill. It certaimly isn’t the worst trade the Hawks have made. Sharpa contract was very hard to move. (By the way, Dallas just improved their club a whole lot) we got a decent third line defenseman, possibly second pairing. The guy had over 60 pointa last season.

    I think signing Oduya is more important than Kruger at this stage of the game. Ans I think extremely highly of Kruger. Can Danualt finally fitin on the fourh line?

    Everyone seems to think Bickell and Versteeg are worthless. If Bicks rebounds a bit, I don’t see it as the end of the world playing him on oneof thetop three linea. Although it could be time to package one or both for a decent draft puck to try and sign both Oduya and Freddy.

    Stan is obviously not done, but his hands were tied behind his back do to the Chevy boys contracts. What if each one of themsigned for $9.5 mildo? Water over the damn I know, but its the price one pays for having 81- 19 and 88 wearing the Indian Head. We still got TVR AND maybe Runblad van imprive some.

    • harshboy

      With the upcoming future ufa signings in the next few years, Cap’n and Tennille will seem like a steal. Fucking Ryan O’reilly got 7.5 for 6. I believe Stammer will get 11 or 11.5. Who’d you rather have Toews or Stammer? 3 cups or none? All the top tier teams will be in salary cap hell the next 2 years. But we have 3 Stanley’s and many of them have none in the last 6 years.

      • wardrums

        it doesn’t change the reality of the current Cap dilemma. Trust me, when i see a designated hitter with 9 homers, a .220 average and 33RBI’s making $12 mildo, I certainly see the paradox. If “One Thing” is truly the mantra though, and if ‘rings” are more important than moola, Toews and Kane could have signed for a bit less, (And still live a very comfortable life). It seems to me the “One Thing” in sports is the almighty dollar. I never want to see 88 or 19 wearing another uniform, ever. But it means you lose players like Saad, Sharp and possibly Kruger and Oduya. That’s reality.

        And then you get a fan base putting all the heat on the GM. Unless we can make a deal for Versteeg or Bickell, this Cap-ocalypse id approaching 2010 levels, as far as losing popular players and valuable assets.

        Personally, I like the looks of next years team a hell of a lot better than the 2010/11 team.

        Is it just me, or are there less crazy deals this off season due to the limit of the Cap?It seems to be a buyers market.

        • Jim

          Keith Seabrook
          Hammer Oduya
          TVR Daley

          That is a formidable defense if they can get Daley on the same page, and by some miracle retain Oduya. Defense wins Cups. That’s the Hawks game. Plus they are not too bad on offense, adding Panera Bread, and the 2 Columbus guys down the middle.

          • wardrums

            whose Panera Bread?

          • cza

            I take it as an odd nickname for Panarin.

          • Jim

            It’s something stupid I made up because every time I hear his name I think of Panera. Sorry. 🙁

          • cza

            I was too harsh. I can hear it, and if there was a Panera line, Kane would obviously be buttering its rolls. *ba-da-tum*

        • GoldenJet

          “One Goal”

          • wardrums

            LOL – I haven’t even been drinking.

            I was thinking though… the worst moment in Blackhawk hockey was when Bobby Hull left. Losing Saad, Sharp, Johns and maybe Oduya and Kruger equal about one Bobby Hull. Obviously, I’m given over to hyperbole, but imagine being a kid that grew up watching the Golden Jet and suddenly he’s gone. That was the worst.

          • Pilotefan

            I was. It was.

  • harshboy

    It’s pretty obvious the Hawks weren’t as high on Johns as the fans were. Daley is quite an offensive talent and can learn the Hawks defensive style very quickly. Look at the halfwits he’s been playing with in D and it’s understandable that there’s no reason for him to play serious defense. That’s not exactly Dallas’s strong suit. I’m not so sure about Garbutt. This one is a tad more baffling. We are stacked with wingers. I’m not going to criticize Stanbo anymore but I believe Dallas got the better end of this one. Good luck to Shooter. He will be missed. Go Hawks!

    • Jim

      I’m thinking Garbutt was a throw in Stan had to take to sweeten the deal.

      • By the grace of Hossa

        I’m thinking they had to throw in Johns for anyone to take Sharp

        • cza

          Wonder if they were shopping Johns with Bickell too. If so, then we’re definitely keeping Bickell.

        • Joe Banks

          That’s the only way this makes sense.

        • Jim

          Without a doubt.

  • GoldenJet

    I’d be curious if they were just too far down the rabbit hole with Dallas to even make the call to Montreal…who just lost Pacioretty into the early season…They could have made a better deal.

  • chi-cago

    Kind of short sighted thinking don’t u think? We got a 3rd cup. Period. Thats all that matters. All we got for vermette trade was having him a 1/4 season? No, he was a great contributing scf contributor who helped bring home a cup. Maybe the hawks front office went all in thinking this was r last great chance w/”the” core. I’m fine w/that cause it got lord Stanley’s cup back in Chicago. Were bad contracts given to some over the years, sure. But I’ll take the sure thing of what we have not what could’ve been had we kept this guy or that. As great as the penguins of the early 90’s were, they won two cups and never touched their 3rd. We have 7 guys who can say they passed a great like Mario and Jaromir. We’ll be back in the mix this season, no doubt. But the fickelness of Chicago sports fans, myself included when it comes to sox and bears, will always be there. I’ve learned to keep the faith w/the hawks

    • HossasPierogi

      Good point – winning the Cup counts for many many draft picks when measuring return

  • Pat Guar Cleveland

    Not a good sign when opposing blogs aren’t just happy about getting sharp and johns but are also saying addition by subtraction with daley and garbutt

  • Pilotefan

    Couple of obs. Daley can lug the puck out of his zone and can actually hit the net. Doubt he’ll be on the PK, or the top pairing or wear an A, as he did in Dallas. A third pair guy with an offensive upside suits me. He was a plus 10 in 2013-14.
    Sharp had to go. It could be worse, much worse.

    • lizmcneill

      if he’s a third pair guy, who’s your #4?

      • jordyhawk

        Right now I would guess it looks like:


        I don’t see there being any money to keep Odyua or get in someone new so TVR gets it by default.

        • lizmcneill

          No matter what way you switch it up, that d-corps is pretty scarey.

          • jordyhawk

            Agree. And yet in the past couple of months we have shipped out three solid stay-at-home prospects who might have served us well for years (and not gotten any defense prospects back in return). Did I mention we used our first pick this year on a winger?

          • lizmcneill

            No matter who they picked, he wouldn’t have been in the NHL this year anyway.

          • jordyhawk

            Not the point, which is that we are giving away NHL ready defenseman like they grow on trees and not even bothering to refill the pipeline.

          • Joe Banks

            And no Stephen Johns in the wings… sigh.
            Sorry, but for me, trading Johns was a gut punch.

      • Pilotefan

        Still thinking Oduya given somebody eats Bickell and Versteeg.
        Could end up with a 4-5 coming back from a trade with a year left and say good-bye to Oduya.
        Golden boy TVR moves up and a 5-6 comes back in a trade.
        Can’t see Q trusting him as a #4 right off the hop.

        Hawks need 7 D.

        • lizmcneill

          Given how hard it was to move Sharp, what makes you think anyone will take Bickell? Looks like they are stuck with him.

          • Pilotefan

            Pack up a few forward prospects with Mr. Bickell, get out the mayo to dress` the salary you are going to munch and phone Uncle Dale.

  • jordyhawk

    If we end up with one on Dano/TT playing center and the other on right wing that fills those two positions, which leaves LW. If we give 11 his job back on the fourth line that leaves the following LW candidates:

    Bickell, Versteeg, Garbutt, Morin (NHL contracts)

    Nordstrom, Panarin (non-roster)

    That’s a mess. I have no idea what to make of it (maybe Stan can hold a yard sale). It also makes it hard for Hartmann, McNeill, or Baun to get much of a look with the right side locked up.

    I also wonder about Stan and Runblad. Moving Paliotta and Johns gifts a spot to Runblad even though Q is on a different page. I don’t think we should have re-upped Runblad let alone clear guys out so he gets a job by default.

    I was looking forward to the reload. I do give Stan high marks for the way he handled Saad, but I don’t like the rest of the recent moves and Stan’s direction (“players that will help us now”). The window is for as long as we have 2/4/7/19/88 and that will be a few years yet. I just don’t see the point of developing players for 3 or 4 years then either shipping them out or never giving them a chance.

  • lizmcneill

    At least Garbutt at 900K should be movable. GMs love an agitator (heck, Bollig with a larger salary got a third!).
    Daley, not so much, and there’s no Plan B at this point if Q can’t fix his defense to acceptable levels. Stan needs to acquire a couple more depth dmen.

    • chichicagochi

      I don’t get the assertion that Daley is a bad defenseman. High O/PP upside with good skating ability and higher puck blocking than any blackhawk last year.

      • lizmcneill

        The Blackhawks don’t block high numbers of shots because they have the puck a lot. Daley’s had a negative Corsi relative to his team for 8 of 11 years in his career. Or in other words, the puck was being directed more at his goal when he was on the ice than when he was off it.

        • 60MinutesBaby60

          You’re so glass half-empty. I’d rather go half-full and say, “The Hawks acquired a veteran Dman whose long career has been highlighted with multiple Plus Corsi years.”

          Kidding aside, Daley can bring it out of his zone – with speed. I actually kinda like him & Hjammer as 2nd pair.

          So who then bottom?
          TVR and … Pokka? Or maybe this Gustaffson guy from over by there in Sweden.

          Poor me. I WAS sold on Dahlbeck back when he got that 3 shift try-out before Qstache send, “Thank you. Next.”

  • T.M.

    I’ve got a hunch that seabrook gets moved, since they won’t be able to sign him after next year. and he would bring a big return

    • Spomer

      That is the first thing I thought about after seeing the trade go across the ticker and looking at the updated cap hit.

    • HarryBalzonya

      Think we would have to get a REALLY good offer before we decided to move him.

      • T.M.

        he would bring the biggest return of all the guys they could trade. and i don’t think they’ll be able to sign him anyway. he’ll be looking for at least 7 mil for six or seven years. and they would get Really good offers for him.

        • Lemmy

          You sound like the Oilers bloggers. Seabrook will be a Hawk. Stan is not going into next season with 2 returning starters on D.

          • T.M.

            who says two? seabrook’s salary frees up money for oduya.

  • SAMCRO Outlaw

    I’m with Fels that Stan overplayed his hand in regards to Sharp & Bickell for sure and Versteeg less.

    Getting rid of Sharp should never have cost them Johns. I get that Sharp had to go and that he wanted to get value for him, but the main thing should have been to reduce salary not take back Trevor Daley & another asshat. If Trevor Daley stays then no way Oduya is back, unless Seabrook is traded. FFS if Leddy drove Q to drink the York Tap dry what the hell is Daley going to do? Lock up your liquor cabinet!

    Stan should have had a gauge on if there was any market for Bickell and either jumped at anyone willing to take his salary or anything approaching offsetting his buyout. BTW his buyout would have been a $1 million cap hit and given the Hawks 3 million in relief the next 2 years, but would have been a $1.5 million hit in years 3 & 4, but yet he sits on the roster and that’s just plain bad. Why he was willing to act swiftly on Saad, but not on Bickell is baffling. To me this was an egregious error and the 3 million in savings would have made his summer a hell of a lot easier.

    Trading Johns puts them in a real bind with 7 entering his walk year. His agent may not have pulled his pants back up yet with the excitement of holding all 52 cards. The Hawks are completely at his mercy now and does anyone believe that Seabrook is going to take a hometown discount and cost himself millions of dollars just to play on one team? At least with Johns they would have had some protection for the inevitability of him leaving; sorry but I’m not buying Svedberg and I know they think they have something in Dahlstrom, but a total of 26 games above Jr means he’s likely at least 2 years away.

    I get that life with two $10 million players is a bitch roster-wise, but not following your own mantra of adding/replacing your core from within and letting them develop at a reasonable price is a recipe for continually throwing good money after bad. I think Stan is perilously close to that ledge now.

    • CurvedBlade

      These kinds of comments are really bordering on meat head. Not to pick on you… there are about a dozen similar.

      We traded Johns, who has never done ANYTHING — for Daley who scored about as many points per game as Keith last season. He is 31 YO, not an aging Rozi clone. As for the 1-way comment… who says so? On a team like Dallas??? Perhaps that is what the coach asked for. Q will ask for defense first. I’m sure he will be fine in that regard. Also, we will like him on the power play.

      We also traded Sharp for a winger we don’t need. Fine. He’s cheap and he can be moved or sent down to rock city if he doesn’t contribute to the team.

      And we dumped cap. In conclusion, I see this trade as helping the team. We got stronger. Not weaker. Good job Stan.

      • CurvedBlade

        Also, I just found out Daley blocked more shots per game than any blackhawk player last season (1.81/game). Seabs was 1st with 1.72, then Oduya 1.62, then Cumisky (just a few games), then Hammer 1.55/game.

        So much for the silly 1-way comments.

        • lizmcneill

          Don’t you know by now that a lot of blocked shots means 1) that the other team has the puck a lot when you’re on the ice 2) you’re letting them get shots off? The best defense is to get the puck 200 feet away from your goalie.

  • Klthurgh

    Alright the first paragraph seems to be missing a resolution. What is the lack of coincidence?

    • lisa simpson

      “…on a Friday” I believe Sam meant

  • HarryBalzonya

    We might see Shaw get moved as part of a Bickell deal. Garbutt is somewhat similar to Shaw. Not as good, but paid less. Moving Bickell and Shaw would clear about 6 million minus whatever salary comes back.

    • 60MinutesBaby60

      Well Harry one you may be on to something there. Your take helps this trade make a LITTLE bit of sense to me anyway i.e. Garbutt brought in to fill Shins’ role if/when he is the key part of a transaction to move Bickell’s contract.

      Does it make sense? Sure okay (to me anyway.) Do i like the idea of Garbutt for Shaw? Nope. Not even close. And I’m guessing Q don’t either but obviously Moring coming back shows Q has no say in the moves Scotty B’s son makes.

      Just my 2 cents’ worth …

  • chitownproud85

    The options – Give the cups back, keep more players. Keep the cups, give away some of the players.

    The Hawks have won 3 in 6 years. There are teams that would sell their first born sons to have won one cup, ever. I think its a fair trade. The “cake-and-eat-it-too” people are hilarious. How is it, exactly, that you suppose the Hawks have won 3 in 6 salary capped years? What do you think the price of winning is in a salary capped league? While I admit today’s trade seems a little bizarre(I thought we were trying to get back some cap room???), I honestly have zero complaints at this point. Its 3 in 6 – I’ll take it, folks.

    • 60MinutesBaby60

      And there ya go. Bottom line 3 in 6 makes Stanbo teflon-esque.

      I think BOTH Saad and Sharp trades are bad at best and catastrophic possibly.

      Hawks had very adequate prospects in the pipeline. ALL trades this time around shoulda been to clear cap space. Whatever round draft picks woulda been fine. Bringing in injury prone and/or relatively old skaters is NOT good strategy.

      PS – I’m still waiting – patiently – for my ph to ring from RWirtz. 😉

      We got 3 Cups & I AM ecstatic but that doesn’t mean sub-optimal tactics are immune from questioning if not criticizing.

      • 60MinutesBaby60

        I will say Dano DOES look like the real deal. BUT we (royal Hawks we of course) already had Panarin on board.

        Call me crazy but I’ll take Saadr & Panarin over Marko & AA (both guys injured recently just sayin;)
        As always tho …

        PS – We wouldn’t need AA as 2C b/c in my (bizarro I’m the Hawks’ GM) world we traded Cro & #7 to the Oil BEFORE the draft for Nugent-Hopkins (asked for Eberle first, compromised). Freed up 6M in cap which we used to keep #20.

        • 60MinutesBaby60

          PPS – I’m drunk so take these comments w/ a grain of salt (lime & tekilya optional)

      • Jim

        Hawks are getting bent over a little bit in the post season. We all knew it was coming. But reading between the lines of some of the stuff I’ve read, Hawks want to win another one NOW. Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Jammer, Crawford (hereafter referred to as The Core) are not getting younger. So the idea I think is to surround them with NHL ready cast of characters. I think they have done that with AA, Dano, Daley. And some wild cards coming in like Panarin. The Core is what is going to win Cups. But you need NHL guys, not AHL guys to do it. So you’re going to have to throw some good AHL guys over the side in trades to get it done, at least that is how I’m interpreting it.

        Hawks maintained some strength down the middle with the addition of AA to replace Richards. Let’s hope Kruger stays. The defense they have the Core plus Daley and Runblad. Not your 1-A but it adds a dimension of offense. So we are only talking about D5 and D6, who can be serviceable.

        So taking a step back, I think they can make another run at it, depending on how the lines gel, and injury luck.

        • Statman

          I absolutely agree- Bowman and the Hawks management are thinking that they can make a cup run again NOW. If somehow they can re-sign Kruger and/or Oduya while only losing Bickell and/or Versteeg, then I like their odds. Somewhere down the road, the late-round (and traded away) draft picks combined with the aging (and retiring) core will conspire to bring the team back to earth; therefore, the mantra must be win now for as long as this run lasts.

          • Jim

            That’s what I think, and that is why all the prospects are going over the transom. Keep refitting NHL proven spare parts around the core, until the run is over. Then it is a complete rebuild. Or, if you are lucky, you have a new young core. On a side note, I can’t help but think Quennville plays a major role with his defensive strategy. New additions to the Hawks (forwards and centers) frequently seem to remark on how they have to relearn their roles and become 2 way players, defense first. And the ones who don’t adapt get let go (Morin, Pirri, Leddy, et al), even if they are good by normal measure. It may be frustrating sometimes, but the results are there.

        • chitownproud85

          We need the respected vet close to the end of his career that hasnt won a cup yet if we are going to win 4 🙂 lol

    • Jim

      We can all stipulate 3 in 6. I want them to win another Cup. A big part of the fun is dissecting the trades. And if we don’t like it, we’re going to say so, here, and on other blogs. Ditto for the line constructions, and the the use of rookies, and the healthy scratches. Even if they win Cups for the next 10 years in a row. If they don’t win another Cup in 10 years, it’s partly because of the trades and use of developmental system players.

      Plus, a lot of the Cups you can thank generational players Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook. How many have the Bulls won without Jordan and Pippen?

      • chitownproud85

        I dont disagree at all with what any of you are saying. My point is this – The Hawks have 3 in 6, and 6 overall. Some teams have zero. Some teams havent won in decades. Do they still need to do their jobs(management) and field the best team possible, year after year? Absolutely. However, the idea that we should be haggling 10,000 what-ifs involving the signings and cap figures over the last few years just seems downright crazy to me. THEY WON 3! Its worth more than any prospect, cap hit, whatever. Way more. I’m sure many of those teams with those loaded “farm” systems would gladly trade almost every one of those prospects to kiss the chalice.

  • Andrew (since Original 6 days)

    Sam Fels, well-written article and is right on point. I am as distressed about this trade as you are.

    In answer to your question, a 2nd and 3rd round pick would in fact have been much better than Daley and Garbutt. Cap space would have been cleared to sign Kruger and Oduya, while Bickell could have been shopped with much less urgency. The farm system is thin, and a couple of high picks would help. Hopefully Daley and Garbutt will be traded for picks or prospects, as well as Morin and Tropp.

    We have three fine Russians and the Slovakian (may make us forget about Saad) joining us. McNeill or Denault should make the team.

    Talk about bad trades. How about two second round picks for the useless and retiring Timonen?

    • Jim

      Never liked the Timonen trade. It was a flier (no pun) that didn’t work out. But his holding the Cup over his head turned out to be iconic.

      • jordyhawk

        If Q had not soured on Dahlbeck so insanely quickly he would have been our bottom pairing guy on the left side and we never would have had to go after Timo. And we still would have won the Cup because Dahlbeck is actually pretty good and Timo was anything but. Dahlbeck (2011 draft) and Johns (2010) should have been our new bottom pairing and it drives me nuts that we spent 4 and 5 years while they developed just to hand them away.

  • T

    Crap trade. How do you get 2.5m, 3.3 + 900K = 4.2m minus 5.9m=
    1.7m not 2.5m. And Stan don’t tell us it was what you’re looking for, I hate being lied to…………you screwed yourself & the Hawks on this deal. Now get busy and get rid of Bickel, Verstooge, & stop paying these guys more than is needed. Ex. Crawford, yr 1 3m yr2 4m yr3 5m…..that’s it. NOT 6m for 5yrs. The goalie you needed to trade was Crawford not Raanta or the Swede…….The dman you needed to throw in the deal was Runbad.

    • Pete

      There was an argument to trade Crow to save Saad and then move Bicks, Sharp and Versteeg for future draft picks(however low and whenever). There a bunch of reasons why that didn’t happen. But its now water under the bridge. The Saad deal could work out well with Dano’s upside and AA if he stays healthy. The Sharp deal falls in the category of we have to trust Bowman because of his track record. I mean he found Desi and that was great move etc. etc. Hate losing Johns but after all he is an uncertain prospect and we have to assume the Hawks felt he was not crucial to their plans. Also Sharp’s skills are declining at this point so that has to be factored in as well. At this point I suggest trading Versteeg for any pick in any year. My proposal on Bickel(playing fantasy GM) is trade him to Florida with a prospect in exchange for the Hawks having the right to swap first round draft picks with Florida next year. Additional consideration in the form of picks from the Hawks could be added if the Florida pick is a top 5 pick. The Hawks clear salary to sign Oduya and Kruger in exchange for the possibility of a higher pick. From Florida’s perspective they have the cap space and they get a prospect for possibly very little if they do well next year.

      • GoldenJet

        Nobody is taking Bickell’s contract off the Blackhawk’s books…If they’re lucky, they’d be able to save a million bucks off his $4mil while giving him away.

        • Pete

          I’m suggesting the possibility of giving up like Danault or McNeil. Former # 1 picks who are NHL ready.

          • Pete

            By the way national hockey columnist Adrian Dater liked the Sharp trade for the Hawks. In the end it comes down to whether Johns turns out to be really good or not.

          • lizmcneill

            Dater is a known idiot.

  • SuperHawk27

    Looks like nobody wants to help the Hawks….the price of WINNING!

  • Been thinking about this a lot since Friday.

    Couple of thoughts:

    1) I think the true evaluation of the trade is going to come at two points in time. The first being at the start of the season. If this trade is the starting point for more activity to come then you have to evaluate the collection of moves together. The second is going to come much further down the line after you see the success the Blackhawks have (or don’t have) and if Johns truly develops into the beast most of us had him pegged to be. Sharp was gone no matter what and I think we all expect him to have some better numbers playing top 6 at 18-22 min/night.
    2) Wouldn’t be surprised if later moves, i.e. Bickell/Versteeg have to include sweeteners as well, especially Bickell at this point.
    3) No one knows exactly what kind of players we really will have because they haven’t played the system yet. There has been plenty of talk about Oduya before and after he joined the Hawks. I’m hoping with Daley we’ll see a similar transformation.
    4) I’m still holding out that we can somehow sign Oduya and Kruger. Everyday that hope slips a little but if we can then holy cow.

    • Jim

      Arctic Ice wrote an article lambasting the Sharp trade:

      FlightZone: Patrick Sharp Traded for Prime Swampland

      The thing is, Sharp had no value at a 5.X cap hit. So what the Hawks got back and lost was the actual market for Sharp. All the other teams had a shot at him, and this is the best Stan could get. And he got at least one piece that can play (Daley). Sure, it would have been nice to trade Washington Ovechkin for Sharp, but the market is the market.

      Plus, this is from a Winnepeg blog, note to them: 3 Cups, and Vegas still has Blackhawks as the favs for 2016. Jets are 22/1

  • molly

    its called win now and prospects acquired at the draft don’t accomplish that

  • Doog

    Trading Raanta so early in the offseason seemed kind of odd since he seemed like the perfect sweetener to throw into a salary dump. But maybe Haggerty can fill that role just as well, even though the organization doesn’t know him as well, and he doesn’t have the same kind of solid NHL-track record that Raanta built up over the last two seasons.

    As to the Sharp deal:

    2.5M in cap relief – had been vital for the team. (It’s 2.5 because Johns 0.8 would have counted against the cap in addition to Sharp’s 5.9.)

    Sharp for Garbutt – clear downgrade for the Blackhawks; Garbutt looks like a 4th line guy while Sharp at worst was a 3rd line winger. At best, Sharp was a great compliment to Toews and Hossa on the top line, bringing the Red Wedding to opposing team’s ice rinks.

    Johns for Daley – umm, generally speaking, what are college prospects track records once they get to the NHL? With Johns, there’s that risk that he just can’t contribute in the NHL, like an updated version of Shawn Lelond. Obviously, there’s also upside risk that he becomes a shut-down blueliner. Daley seems like a #5 defenseman who can run the power play and maybe hack it on the second pairing. While the team obviously won a Stanley Cup without that competent a 5th defenseman, it is a useful player. So the tradeoff between the defensemen is getting a known mediocrity while losing upside risk.